UK Politics Thread (Part 1)

I don’t think that’s the point though. You’re confusing (perhaps intentionally) charity with voting intention.

The point is do you think society works best when we follow our own self interest or when we actively look after each other.

Both are perfectly legitimate, and to believe the former isn’t to say you’re a heartless, uncaring sociopath. You just think that self interest promotes a general uplift through trickledown (which I disagree with)

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So better the devil you know?

And that’s probably knowing deep down that there’s no way someone else could do a worse job.

If the Conservatives were to change leader and the front bench I’d might understand your position a bit better but with Johnson and co. there I’m really struggling sorry.

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Some of us actually did do Latin at school (and paid attention) Surely there had to be some point to it?

Tbf, those weren’t the options on the table.

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My worry is that am I (or anyone else) confident that some else could have done a better job? The lack of a consistent and coherent opposition means that the Cons are in and can sit back and say we did the best we could and that this is unprecedented and that this time next year, we’ll all be millionaires - it’s hard to not believe them or contradict that.

The thing what they are doing quite well is that they are emphasising the glitter that they are adding into the piles of shit that have created and everyone is like yeah, that really sparkles. Conversely with Labour, no matter how much glitter they added, everyone is like, well it’s still just shit.

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Personally I dont think it’s possible to do a worse job. We must also remember that a good chunk of what’s happened is deliberate. Profiting off the pandemic for example.

I do agree with you that Starmer needs to up his profile a bit. Sitting quietly in the background etc. isn’t getting people to notice him. He should be in Johnsons face tearing his policies and decision making (or lack of) to shreds.

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This a hundred times over.

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problem is that there’s this mantra that Johnson can just call him Captain Hindsight and the point is lost, no matter how valid it is.

it’s a difficult battle to play but Starmer needs to do more I think. That table is loaded against him.

If you’re outwitted by a halfwit, you really are in the wrong pond.

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But all this is only a recent problem…

I agree but the vast majority don’t or won’t. It’s like everyone has scandal fatigue. The humiliation over Afghanistan, the China stand off, AUKUS, dodgy contracts, minitrial mischief, mishandling of, well, anything and that’s not touching on COVID, BREXIT, Education and the Economy. There’s so much to pick on. In days gone by the BBC and other new outlets would have been right in there but somehow I find that news outlets on the whole appear less critical and more placating and just move on to the next issue/disaster - but that could just be me getting old…

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I wonder why :thinking:

But your also right that there’s this huge push for media to be first or in some cases get the deflection story in first.

It’s weird that the BBC, which has been subject to a virulent campaign of attack on the grounds of ‘left wing bias’, and is now led by Tory apparatchiks, would go soft on the government :thinking:

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They will be at the next election, and it’s highly likely that Johnson will be returned with a healthy majority.

The scandal fatigue point is so true. When the scandals, fuck ups and corruption is coming so thick and fast you can’t deal with it. It’s too much.

Media outlets are a bit bewildered by the normalisation of this, and they struggle to follow any story through to its conclusion, because it seems you are never more than 24 hours until the next one pops up.

Mind you, the media give the Tories a free ride. Even the BBC is now stuffed with Tory stooges in key positions, and under continual threat of being scrapped. The right wing press is a write off. So much Tory bullshit goes completely unchallenged.

This article expresses the problem, looking at the Levelling Up agenda. Where Government announcements and soundbites are diametrically opposed to their policies and plans, the media need to tell us this - and they are completely failing

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I dunno, good chance that neither of them are leaders of their respective parties at that point.

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That is a rather left wing way of viewing it. The retort from the right is that social interests are best served when we can see everyone following their own self interest, in open institutions such as markets, rather than in authority structures run by people acting in their own self interest claiming to be looking out for everyone. I don’t trust government to do anything particularly well, so my first inclination is to minimize what it does to the things that nothing else does better. I trust unions less.

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I’m centre-right when it comes to the economy precisely because I’m centre-left when it comes to social justice.

Interesting. What are your views on education and health care. State funded or privately run?