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Did he by any chance mean āThe National Socialistsā which was the name of the Nazi party certainly in the 30ās?
Or is he really that dumb?
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Common thing these days among right-wingers everywhere. They think theyāve found the magic, argument to end all arguments against the lefties - āHey look, they were called National Socialistsā.
As if no one had ever noticed before.
Heās also very likely just stupid.
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To be fair, there was a bit of a scuffle going on in Europe at the timeā¦
Iām not even remotely positioned to debate you on World War Two Singapore so I do apologise in advance if this sounds crass, but during a war territory can be lost and gained extremely quickly.
Did the allies not liberate Singapore?
Again, Iām here to be educated, not to educate on this subject
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So do you think that Hitler would have stopped at Europe? I think weād both agree that if heād have taken the UK and Russia heād have gone for the world. Kind of kills the debate.
Of course we are glad that Singapore eventually got out of Japanese occupation. But my original post on this was HOW my grandpa felt during that period towards the British forces in Singapore and Malaya or specifically how they came, colonized, suppressed the locals, and then when shite hits, were useless by losing Singapore in 8 days, in fact the people who defended us vigorously with their lives are mainly the Australians, Indians and locals. There have also been articles on how the British were not adequately prepared and grossly underestimated the Japanese. I am not sure how that can be confused with how we are not glad or grateful to be liberated from Japanese occupation. The fact is the surrender of Britain of Singapore was described by Churchill as a military disaster and the biggest surrender in terms of number by a British force. As far as I am concerned, my Grandpaās criticism of the British forces are not a criticism of the specific loss of lives of individuals but a criticism of the colonial forces then.
And yeah of course they were involved in Europe and that is why I did not say they were useless anywhere else because like you, I am not equipped to comment on the war elsewhere. But this is how we were told of the sentiments back then by people and family who has been through the war. People can disagree and deny it, but the reality here was such.
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Cummings is goings
Also just to drop my 2p on the WW debate
Regardless of which side a soldier was on during the World Wars, anyone that lost their lives was a hero, for fighting for their side. Soldiers were not the ones deciding to go to war. They were doing their jobs, a job no man or woman should have to do - kill other men and women.
Iām gonna go hide now
In my opinion of course.
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Itās a lovely sentiment in theory and I get the well-meaning intention behind it, but maybe letās not go that far.
Plenty of soldiers were not heroes by any stretch of the imagination. Certainly, though not exclusively, not on the German side. Loads of shit happened that isnāt justifiable simply by saying this was a war situation. And while certainly not every German soldier was a die-hard Nazi, plenty of them were.
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Sorry for taking this thread further off topic but I found this article on the BBC today particularly timely. Really good read.
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Yeah thatās a slight variation of BBCās headline: āCummings goingā. Iām sure we are in for more in the next couple of days.
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I am working on a book project right now, looking at WW2 through the eyes of the home audience reading newspapers of the time. Singapore was remarkable. It was built up as a āfortressā, and Churchill was stunned to realize it in fact had no fortifications. Thousands of troops were there, but they were inadequately equipped and supplied. The effect was an incredible shock to Commonwealth morale.
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He has seen all the movies, and knows that is just not true.
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I mean I know that it is popular to say yes, here. āEveryoneā does that. Not that it is important or very relevant to anything, but the idea was the revive the Holy Roman Empire ++ and build Germania. On the backs of a defeated Soviet Unions whose population was to be the slave labour for that empire.
Invasion of the US would have been very unlikely, at least for a decade due to manpower shortages and much more. I believe the war would have probably ended if the Soviet Union and the Allies were defeated, but that the victorious Reich would have made several future land grabs and continued being ultra aggressive. Most probably, those countries not at war with it would have to appease it with several types of concessions, if they fell within the Reichās sphere of interests (which would then be vast). Not much better for them if they fell inside the Japanese sphere of interest by the way.
But this is speculative and very hard to say. And I am not touching upon what had happened to Jews etc. I suppose the Reich would have exterminated the European Jewry completely, and then probably found an island, like Madagaskar, where the remaining Jews in the world would be penned in effectively, like a museum. Roma people would no longer exist in Europe, they would be eradicated, probably allowed to live in Asia.
But it is all super speculative and I donāt know if there is a great point in speculating about it tbh. But I donāt think the Reich would have gone for the world. Later on in the future, if victorious in the Second World War, it quite possibly could have though. Maybe even probably. Americans having the nuclear bomb would probably protect them (or maybe even worse for the earth, the future could have been a nuclear hellscape as I donāt see Hitler surrendering after just a couple of bombs here and there, impossible to know though).
Playing with history is difficult, there are always many factors, many of whom will be unknown (if X doesnāt happen, what then happens to Y, and that will have consequences for Z and V). One cannot be categorical in any such forecast I think. And certainly one would have to do a ton of research to say anything with a any great probability. I have certainly not made a ton of research into alternative history lines.
In any case, it is good that we can speculate about these things and that the war ended in 45.
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Trump, Sutcliffe and now Cummings. Perpetrators all. Meeting their destiny.
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Well I suppose those five months Cummings stayed in post after Barnard Castle were worth Boris sacrificing national goodwill towards the lockdown for.
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There must have been shit brushed under the carpet and someone found it. The question is how long will Johnson last after Brexit?
Seems about right for the Tories, go with May so she looks like a baffoon replace with a baffoon then put your man in. Cummings probably convinced Johnson that in 2 months he can find whoās behind it and close the stable door, fat chance.
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I did read a number of articles on that regarding what you mentioned. Singapore was chosen as a base as it was strategically situated for the forces to react to the Japanese ambitions. Some other bases considered was Hong Kong who was deemed too near and Australia who was deemed too far, so Singapore was prefect in that sense. And yes it was sold to Churchill that Singapore is like an impregnable fortress but in the end, what they realized was poorly trained soldiers, incomplete regiments, irrelevant weapons like cannons which had firepower for sea incursions instead of land and air which the Japanese used.
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I hope you donāt mind me saying but, i hope you or your family recorded as much of his story as you could. Many veterans are reluctant to talk about their experience as they suffered a lot and seen many comrades killed and maimed but their stories are really important to keep for the next generations.
My personal exprience of the British army is not a great one tbh but I am fascinated by ww2 and think that the effort and innovation of the British army and the British people to get through and actually win the war, really against the odds was nothing less than amazing.
Many of my childhood friends grandads and uncles joined the british army and served in places like Burma - and Belize strangely. Some great stories.
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It shouldnāt have (and probably didnāt) come as a surprise to Churchill.
During his tenure as Chancellor during the interwar period, Winston Churchill had restricted the money being spent to fortify Singapore. On 15 December 1924, Churchill wrote to the then Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin stating that he did not believe that there was āthe slightest chanceā of a war with Japan āin our lifetimeā. On the basis of these views he successfully reduced the planned scale of fortifications in Singapore.
The under funding of the defences of Singapore continued right up to the point when the Japanese invaded Malaya (the day before Pearl Harbour). So, although in terms of manpower the British forces outnumbered the Japanese forces, the Japanese troops (battle hardened veterans) were much better equipped. For example, the Japanese invading force had 200 tanks; the British had none. The Japanese had 618 aircraft at their disposal; the British 215, most of which were obsolete and outclassed by the Japanese, enabling the Japanese to achieve complete air superiority within days.
Little wonder the British were overrun so quickly.
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