That`s at least two of us that clicked it.
@ISMF the site is broken can we have a new one please 
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Itās good that heās done that and even more so that checks are actually in place to ensure that the capability is there. Shame they werenāt there earlier. I welcome that. But it really sounds like a shot to nothing or he knew it would pay off. Itās all very convenient to be honest.
But how did he jump the queue? Sure thereās a crisis going on even then thereās got to be some level of checks and scrutiny. The contracts have to be right.
It might put friends of Tory MPās off which is no bad thing but Iām guessing that type wouldnāt give a monkeys to be honest.
To be clear Iāve no issue with the endeavor heās shown if it is 100% off his own back but I really have my doubts. Itās all too convenient. Somehow heās managed to start from scratch, understand the market and still undercut the opposition. Is accepting a loss or a much smaller margin maybe?
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Thereās no evidence that he did, is there?
And heās not really starting from scratch. Heās got premises, employees, manufacturing capability, experience of working with plastics and plastic mouldingsā¦
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No there isnāt but youāll be glad to hear that Iāve now read the article.
I still have concerns but am in no position to scream that this is another example of nepotism. But all the ingredients are still there.
From the article.
āHowever, on Monday, after being confronted with further details about his interactions with the health secretary, Bourne backtracked. In a phone call with the Guardian, he conceded that he has in fact exchanged text and email messages with Hancock over several months.ā
Plus my suspicions are also raised that he messaged Hancock on the 30th March saying he was willing to retool the factory etc. Iāve no issue with this. The numerous emails that followed I do take issue with. But then it gets even weirder.
Two weeks later (mid April) he was approached by a major distributor contracted by the DHSC to make widgets or whatever. How did they know that a company that makes packaging for the food industry was now able to make medical supplies? He was then contacted towards the end of April by the same distributor. He convinced them he could do it. Only then did he seek the expert knowledge. He then switched supplying from one distributor to another. Again how did they know?
That sounds a bit too convenient for my liking. Also by starting from scratch I literally mean switching industries and understanding the pricing of that market. Worth noting he isnāt actually working directly for the DHSC or the government. Heās a supplier (subby) to a distributor.
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He first contacted Hancock on 30th of March. In first or second week of April he is contacted to make pippete tips (something really basic) but this rejected. Shortly thereafter (still April) the same company goes back to to make vials of saline solution (Times newspaper).
I know we had F1 teams and Dyson trying to make ventilators (which should never of happened either) but they failed. They failed because they lacked knowledge and got specifications wrong (going from governments incorrect specifications) and their devices with their new designs did not pass hurdles of regulatory approval in a reasonable time. I know it does not seem a big jump. But the difference between Dyson making pumps for Vacuums to medical devices is as big a jump as making pizza boxes and cups to supplying laboratory grade saline vials.
Imagine his challenges and the scale of the problem. Lets say he supplied the small saline tubes (half a teaspoon at 2.5 mls) thatās roughly 5000 L a week.
He would need to demonstrate that he can make the tubes to the right size and shape and order scale but also that :
- He can source large quantities of laboratory grade plastic that is suitable for application (permeability, no leaching, not too fragile or too flexible). During time of limited supply china.
- That he can implement a sterilisation process and ensure no chemical contamination
- That he can source saline to laboratory grade. Ie containing ultra-pure water with no minerals or other metals or salts excepted those added. (Which potentially could negatively impact testing)
- That he can implement the technology to dispense saline into these vials at such an industrial scale, again maintaining sterility
- That he can fast track and jump through all the government hoops and accreditation to act as a supplier to laboratories (in normal times an highly regulated and difficult process that typically takes 6 months to a year)
Labs go through huge amounts of one use plastic and its expensive. But that cost is reflective of challenges making it, and high barrier to entry for competitors.
Fair play to him he did deliver (unlike so many) supplying by June. But the barriers (sourcing, logistics, operations, government and regulatory approval) where huge. Its astonishing that he was awarded a contract.
For me the only logical conclusion is improper influence, or that the country was so in the shit it was throwing money in every direction, that even a pizza box and plastic cup maker are viewed as plausible options.
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I thought his previous employment was armed forces and landlord.
Not sure that he has much experience in what heās doing now though he could employ someone or have a partner who does.
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The wierd thing about all these āstart upā companies and the govid response is that companies that used to supply such items have and are going under.
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Yeah, they did.
Loads of long established manufacturers of PPE and ventilators came forward to offer to scale up production. Universities pulled together to offer their biomedical facilities for testing. People capable of delivering stuff cane forward to help.
They were by and large ignored in favour companies and individuals with no experience of the sector, and in many cases little experience of anything, but close ties to the government.
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Thinking about it more I havenāt articulated why it really pisses me off. Sure there is the cronyism. But the lack of quality control in the process undermines absolutely everything.
One thing that has continually bugged me was the high level of false positives in the UK PCR tests. These tests are like precision instrument. Highly sensitive and highly accurate. Generally, you should not get a high false positive rate. If you do, itās typically human error. For example, use tap water instead of lab grade water, not working in a sterile way, or using dirty equipment.
By letting amateurs into the supply chain, it undermines the whole diagnosis process and the confidence in the result. When Hancocks friend is using a bouncy castle company (I repeat a bouncy castle company !!) to make him a sterile room, it does not exactly inspire confidence 
of operating to the required manufacturing standards.
It introduces sizable risk. What I would really love to see is complete transparency in the applicants. As John Henry tweeted about the Man City deal. "How much was the losing bid?ā
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I can assure you he wouldnāt even be able to make cheese in a bouncy castle and here he is getting a mega contract for lab grade equipement that other companies have invested for and didnāt get. Itās rank amateurism.
As I mentionned before the big problem for me is that companies that specialised in this niche market are going bust. Itās like flushing all the goood stuff down the toilet. But hey cheapest is best even if itās shit.
We then wonder why our countries are in a mess. These companies that filled this niche werenāt getting enough orders because the government wasnāt replenishing out of date stocks. All this shows is that better planning (national and local) is needed to have a vibrant and ready for action econonmy (even if that entails subsidies and forms of nationalisation).
Btw I saw a programme where a goat cheese producer had to invest to comply with regulations and had to invest in revamping the whole unit (tiles and all) noway would they have got away with a bouncy castle.
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Yeah, the cronyism would be bad enough on its own, but itās showing preferential treatment to people who simply canāt deliver the stuff they are being favoured to deliver. That looks less like cronyism, and more like a deliberate cash grab. Iāve said before that the primary aim of this government is not to govern - itās to grease the wheels of their lucrative private sector career down the line.
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Still no evidence that what he produced was unsatisfactory, after all it got regulatory approval. To repeat,
Asked whether Hinpack received any preferential treatment because of Bourneās contacts with the health secretary, a DHSC spokesperson said it had not: āThere is no evidence to support these claims. As the National Audit Office report has made clear, ministers are not involved in procurement decisions or contract management and to suggest otherwise is wholly inaccurate.ā
It seems like posters think Iām saying that heās a stand up guy and everything is all fine. Iām not, Iām merely saying that thereās no evidence of the contrary. At the moment itās all innuendo.
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How would a DHSC spokesperson know that when Hinpick isnāt contracted to them? They were initially contracted by the distributor as I understand it. How did that distributor know to go to a food packaging company. How did that food manufacturing company know what to bid to win the contract?
There isnāt evidence but thereās a lot of questions thatās for sure.
The guy deserves credit for seeing an opportunity and going for it. What I am concerned about is the possible leg up from Hancock at the expense of known and experienced manufacturers of essential equipment in a crisis. There is risk.
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There is, I agree. But without more information itās all hypothetical and supposition.
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yeah, Iād love to see the emails between Hancock and the guy in question.
Recent history suggests it isnāt good though. The time line looks a bit dodgy as well.
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The guy deserves credit for seeing an opportunity and going for it. What I am concerned about is the possible leg up from Hancock at the expense of known and experienced manufacturers of essential equipment in a crisis. There is risk.
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We canāt be sure that Hancock didnāt approach the guy firstā¦ living next door to him and allā¦!
Makes it stink even more fishy if that is the caseā¦
That might be pushing it I think as they say he approached Hancock via WhatsApp.
Iāve dont bear any grudge with the guy himself to be honest. Itās this government I take issue with. This COULD be another example of them ignoring existing expertise during a health crisis to āhelp a friendā
I wonder if itās possible to quantify this in lives?
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Sadly I doubt there will be a single case where evidence is found.
At the same time though billions will be spunked, and those with parliamentary links will have financially benefited.
I have such little faith in the process and government, to me the UK in the last couple of years resembles a corrupt state. One with little integrity, lots of disinformation, and profiteering.
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To be honest, I donāt have the time or the inclination to look at each case on its merit. There is an established track record of cronyism and nepotism, and in the matter of Coronavirus it has endangered public health. It is entirely fair, when the government is using a global pandemic crisis to divert billions of public money to their mates, to assume that this isnāt legit.
If someone has been repeatedly and persistently nicking from my corner shop Iām not interested in giving him the benefit of the doubt because he might have paid for one of those Mars Bars after all.
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