Thank you @Kopstar, interesting reading your review of that list.
Also interesting reading yours @Mascot.
Seems like there is general agreement that the Government have made a lot of mistakes. I appreciate that at times they have to say and do stuff that can is often picked apart and scrutinised heavily, and in lists (satirical or not), as the above, with a pre-judged view of their approach to governance.
Lets get this right. Brexit was maneuvered by Boris and his oppos at the wishes of the multi millionaires that back the tory party and financed Boris at every step. Why ? because Brexit is all about more money and power for the wealthy money men. In 2014 Boris said the EU was such a wonderful thing that if it did not exist we would have to invent it . Two years later he was telling lies and trying to get the UK out. What changed ? The EU began introducing measures to stop the rich from hiding money off shore and ensure that they paid taxes in their own country. The money men did not like that so Boris changed his mind about the EU because he was paid to.
It is nothing to do with the EU wanting UK money, the UK had a very good deal with the EU, a deal that was the envy of many other nations. The figures quoted by Boris and Farage et al were lies. What else would you expect from a man who had lost numerous high profile jobs for lying.
With regards to fishing. The UK fishermen sold their rights to big International organisations so can hardly expect to have them handed back for free!.
There is nothing about Brexit that is good for the UK citizens , except the rich and powerful . Boris simply told people lies they wanted to believe, and many people fell for it.
It saddens me to see the UK having to struggle under this totally useless and selfish government with their double standards.
It amazes me, that after more than four years, so many people still donāt understand why over 17m people voted to leave the EU. The vast majority of those who support remaining in the EU have simply not bothered to understand this and most of those who have pretended to listen have dismissed/ignored what theyāve heard.
This actually been bothering me since the referendum. So why??? Not just Brexit, the Euro Skepticism in general. Itās easy to dismiss such sentiments because people like Michael Farage, Mary Le Pen are at the forefront of such movements, but without a viable cause, these people couldnāt have stocked up such resentments.
So, why???
Please explain some because at the moment all i can see is that the short term pain that will come from cutting your own bollocks off.
The usual reasons for leaving are things we were already able to achieve but ignored.
Long term iām far from convinced the UK recovers. I think we will lose far more than we gain but i will admit i have not seen / heard many gains.
Youāre proving my point mate. I donāt think I can be accused of not setting out reasons for leaving the EU, at length, on the other forum. Reasons that have nothing to do with the causes cited by @costared.
Iām not saying that those favouring being part of the EU have to agree with them, just understand them.
I know. 
Iāve even tried looking back through posts on the old forum but that thread is so large etc. tracking stuff down is awkward at best. And I do remember you having you own reasons for wanting to leave. I just cant remember what they are. I certainly dont know if they are still valid given the UKās current trajectory.
Iāll be honest in that I think people certainly need some kind of ray of light on this matter.
On a personal note my positon is to simply hope that we get the best we can out of this and hopefully open up new opportunities. But I honestly dont see that happening, hence the dumb question. We see to be set on severing every single link with the EU despite being highly reliant on trading with them on numerous levels. On top of that this government also has this in built mentality that it can reinvent the wheel. A lot of that think is batshit crazy IMO and theyāre making a hash of it at every opportunity.
And it amazes me how your rational intelligent leave voter with a thoughtful intellectual underpinning to their vote fails to understand what a vanishing minority they represent amongst leave voters.
The problem I have with the āyou remainers havenāt learnt anythingā stuff is that we have, and itās perfectly clear why Brexit happened, but itās not nice for the majority of leavers to hear. Because leavers basically got conned. What it all boils down to for the vast majority of the 17m leave voters is that they took their entirely justified anger, and focussed it in entirely the wrong place and on the wrong institution, encouraged to do so by the very same politicians who will only make their situation much, much worse.
Maybe you can explain why so many voted for Brexit. DonĀ“t forget it was a very close vote and when I asked people why some of the answers I got were unbelievable. One was " because I hate the Tories", then there was " because my dad did" and many other equally ridiculous answers. Most popular was āto get rid of the immigrantsā but they did not mean the European immigrants, I am sure you get my drift.
I also know quite a lot of UK citizens currently living outside of the UK who did not get the chance to vote due to late response to their requests to do so from the UK government. I also know that some people did not realise that it meant that the UK would actually leave the EU
Taking this sort of thing into account and the very small winning margin I find it hard to believe that this referendum was accepted and will have such a devastating affect on so many UK citizens.
The sad thing is that it is a lot easier to āconā a man than it is to convince him that he has been conned.
I have yet to hear a good reason for leaving the EU that will benefit the majority of citizens.
Same. Iām really hoping @Kopstar can provide some good reasons as I, like you havenāt seen any and I certainly havenāt heard any from the likes of Boris, Gove, Francois and the not so mighty but poison mouthed death pencil (Rees-Mogg)
I still think the most pertinent question would be are those things that made a leave vote attractive still on the table and likely to happen?
āPoison mouth death pencilā I like it . Certainly a devious man,Stood to pocket 60 million (or was it 70? ) when the UK left the EU. His business is of course off shore investments so I would say he is a money manipulator using his inside information. Wonder what his tax bill would be if the vote had gone the other way ?
People complained about the money the UK was contributing to the EU but the silly thing is that since the vote the weak pound has cost the UK more than enough to pay the EU money every month. Of course Germany and France pay more and Spain pays almost as much. Most people do not realise that.
Because apart for Germany itās not true
Well, Italy pays more than Spain, and in 2016 contributed more than the UK - but was about the same as the UK in 2018. So apart from getting the Spain versus Italy ordering wrong, it is not wildly wrong. Germany and France are the two largest contributors.
Eh? Is 2016 a curious outlier? The UK has been the 2nd biggest net contributor to the EU budget (behind Germany) for the last ten years and for the majority of the individual years within that period.
Are 2018 the most recent figures? Incidentally, the UK paid ā¬3 billion (or 46%) more than Italy that year
That is net, not contributions.
Find more statistics at Statista
though somewhat confusingly:
You will find more infographics at Statista
which runs to that lack of transparency reason that some Leave voters had.
Not sure if the 2019 numbers have been published yet or notā¦I think it is usually sometime around this time of year though.
I referred to 2016 and 2018 to look at the ex ante versus post-vote contributions, because of both any winding down factors and exchange rate effects.
Most people would think net contribution is more relevant
Sure, but why talk about the gross figure? Itās not really a contribution if you get given it back. Gross we probably average the 2nd or 3rd highest contributors over 10 years given the UK and French economies are nip and tuck.
As net contributors weāre much higher than Italy, Spain and, for that matter, France.
In some ways, net may be more important, particularly with respect to the cost-benefit line of analysis. However, that obscures a great deal at the same time because it frames the only benefit of the EU as being Euros returned back to that country directly by the EC. The EU is thereby reduced to a zero-sum set of transfers around the set of member states.
By that measure, Germany is remarkably altruistic. But most analyses suggest the two countries that reaped the greatest benefit from EU economic integration (i.e. indirect benefit) are Germany and the UK.
See my response to C-L. Member states are not really strictly given it back, the net encompasses projects done, etc, as well as hypothecated spending programs. But the more important point is that Germany and the UK have both derived significant other benefits, where some other members have seen comparatively small indirect benefit.