Sure, but for this specific talking point it is more relevant. Completely agree it’s not nearly as important in the bigger picture as it’s made to be. But then that’s the Brexit debate for ya…
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Be that as it may, Kopstar was asserting that costared’s point was not true. In strict terms of contributions, it is true.
That said, I have no idea why the same source has two different graphs for the same year on what appears to be the same data.
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Except for Germany, on net contributions it isn’t remotely true. Except for Germany, on gross contributions it also isn’t true. France and the UK are practically level. Both some way ahead of Spain.
Yes, point taken about Spain - as I noted, Spain is not even ahead of Italy. The numbers for net of course speak for themselves.
But in 2018, France sent the EU 20 billion Euros, the UK sent 13.5, which is less than Italy’s 15.
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Thank you. My original comment is fair then.
France got nearly €15 billion back, Italy got just over €10 billion back. The UK got just over €6 billion, making it the 2nd biggest net contributor after Germany.
Yes, vis-a-vis Spain. But apart from the Spain error, so was Costa’s. He is not wrong on the statement because you decided to apply the net metric, nor is your statement that on a net basis the UK is 2nd.
For me, the more salient point is that I have found 4 different answers to the same damn question in EU statistics. I understand that there are always complexities, but when a simple point of fact is that muddled, accountability is inherently a mess.
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… and France and maybe Italy.
I did not realise there are so many ways to calculate these figures. I am sure I saw Spain above Italy somewhere but I must admit I was surprised. I have now looked at a few more sires with figures and they confirm what my point was. The UK was not “oversubscribing” and not " carrying " the EU as many have claimed.
I am still waiting for someone to give me an honest and true reason as to how the UK will benefit from leaving the EU.
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If that was your point, why not say that rather than come out with a claim that was wrong, ironically accompanied by the suggestion that others are ignorant of the facts?!
As it is, if that was your point, as the second highest net contributor behind Germany, the UK certainly does help to “carry” the EU.
I suppose my point was that many people are not aware of the true value of being in the EU to the UK. I am not financial wizard or a political fanatic. I am just an ordinary , reasonably intelligent guy,
who gets his information from the Internet . I had never been particularly interested in politics until the Brexit talk began and I quickly saw that lies were being told so I have followed things quite closely since then.The more I discovered the more I was convinced that Brexit was bad for the ordinary citizens of the UK.
Obviously the UK was a major contributor because it was one of the wealthier nations. Obviously the EU will be weakened by the UK absence which of course is what Boris Russian friends wanted .
I am still waiting for someone to give me a sensible reason for Brexit. A reason that will convince me that it will be good for the majority of UK and not just the rich elite that only want more money and power
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So wanted to add to them?
For more than four years I contributed to the Brexit thread on TIA and yet this and the remarks from @Noo_Noo and @Mascot are still currency. And then there’s indignation when I suggest those supporting the EU simply haven’t bothered to listen to or understand the reasons the majority of leave voters have for voting the other way.
Still remain supporters accusing leave supporters of ignorance and being conned 
It’s such a shame we pumped that money into the EU, because if we’d kept it I’m sure the Govrrnment would have used it to fund regional development projects in Wales and across the midlands and north of England.
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So why do you think 17m people voted to leave the EU? Not why you voted leave, why did people across the country, who would only be worse off by leaving, vote that way?
I dont think that’s very fair. To me its all about the advantages / disadvantages of whatever agreement or otherwise we have with the EU next year.
I can honestly say i haven’t seen a single one as yet. The original reasons for leaving are increasingly being revealed as bollocks. So i’m looking for any benefits whatsoever. Still looking
I have looked back at the old TIA thread but its honestly hard work looking back and as i’ve already asked twice are those reasons still valid or a possibility?
It was a perfect storm -
The fear of immigrants - having witnessed the events unfold in Germany and Greece
The years of austerity - a chance to give the finger to Cameron and his cronies.
The pathetically organised remain campaign which lacked leadership and direction.
The willingness of senior politicians to lie and decieve on a truly massive and co-ordinated scale
Outside agencies with the ability to promote and benefit from a leave vote.
(Willful) Ignorance of the institutions and the repercussions of a leave vote.
The 17m agreed with the notion, rightly or wrongly, that the UK would be better off outside the EU.
All of the above and more.
- I am not remotely interested in taking this conversation any further and the reasons above do not necessarily reflect my opinion on the matter. - its done time to move on - there are more important considerations these days.
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But what is your point (at this point)? That you originally voted for a Norway type deal (in the referendum)? We’ve discussed that endlessly on the old forum, personally still don’t understand why any big country in the EU would have wanted that instead of full membership (I can see why it makes sense for small and relatively wealthy countries like Norway) - but then this hasn’t been on the table as an option forever anyway. Yes, it would have been infinitely more reasonable, but it was never pursued by the UK government in reality.
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I think my first post in the Brexit thread was that I wanted the UK to be a member of what we originally signed up for. That remains the case. EFTA/EEA is the closest to that original concept.
That isn’t unreasonable, nor is it an impossibility. In all likelihood we’ll end up there eventually.
In all likelihood? We’ll have to disagree on that one then. And, I guess, wait what happens.
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Sure. Just my opinion.