UK Politics Thread (Part 2)

The closeness of the vote, the momentous nature of the decision and the obvious lack of knowledge among the electorate mean that there would never be a quiet acceptance of the result.
If it had gone the other way, by a similar margin, it’s probable that leavers would be vociferously objecting and demanding a new vote.

3 Likes

Do you believe Liverpool is the greatest team

Yes/No

I can answer that as easily as I can answer

Do you want to leave the EU

Yes/No

It’s really not the same

5 Likes

I’ve mentioned this before (maybe on the old forum). He was picked out years ago for great things by the powers that be in the Labour party. How do I know? Not telling :wink:

4 Likes

It’s not even probable. When the exit polls were predicting a narrow remain victory, Farage was all over the media saying such a narrow margin would demand a second referendum.

3 Likes

I was being polite

The problem with that approach is that the vote to leave was never that simple. There are a multitude of ways we could have left the EU. People projected their own preferred option onto that question.

I would have had more willingness to accept the vote, had it been clear that the binary question was the start of the process and there would be further democratic exercises to establish what kind of exit we wish to pursue.

But that not what happened. What happened was that the ERG wing of the Tory party leapt on the result, and despite loads of them declaring there was no chance of leaving the single market, they used the referendum result to push for the hardest possible Brexit, and gaslit the voters into thinking that’s what they always wanted.

Another thing leavers were warned would happen, but you all knew better.

1 Like

You never have to be polite when talking about Farage. He is like one of those turds that have a habit of popping back up round the U-Bend no matter how many times you flush it.

I think the sitdown may be fair if there wasn’t someone else recording the whole time. Its hard to reasonably listen then explain in good faith to someone who you don’t know when they seem they may be interested in an edited ‘gotcha’.

1 Like

I think these are a frequent tactic now though, so there should be some strategy in place to handle them.

I think the tactic is ‘risk avoidance’ and not to engage but have the questioners physically distanced. Certainly used elsewhere.

Since you quite obviously identify as working class, what are these ideals?

Ideals on a personal level will vary, but for me from a personal level it’s knowing what hardship was & is and knowing that many in society have never felt the struggles of hardship that many had during the 70’s & 80’s , and on the one hand that is great because it means they’ve had a comfortable life in some regards.

But the hardships I had , sculpted the community of Ely in Cardiff and then the wider knowledge of the south Wales valleys history and what they went through brings greater appreciation, I now appreciate the local communities attitude more now than when I was younger.

You ask what to me are working class ideals, the only answer I can give in many cases is work hard, enjoy life and be respectful to others as best you can, appreciate where you come from especially in social class and try to remain loyal to your roots, again it’s only a personal belief and will vary , but the respect I give to people for their beliefs and reasons why they vote a certain way is something to me that I try to understand, whilst not agreeing with them , I’d still shake their hands etc buy them a pint and not blame them for any societal ills just because of how they voted .

But here it’s a case anyone who voted Brexit is a racist thick cunt and they don’t understand fuck all and now they voted to leave and have fucked up my life as the utopian dream I had of EU membership is gone.

And to further answer your call of what a working class ideal is…

Working class areas have ideals as to what they want, they never vote Tory, and yet here we are with a Tory government that acted on a simple question " do you want to leave the EU. YES/NO…

And labour have lost the redwall because they seem to have forgotten their roots imo

1 Like

I’m not sure you can maintain that the majority of the electorate who voted leave were stupid enough to not understand what they were voting for yet also canny enough to be able to have an informed opinion about the nature or process of the exit?

There were similar trends noted in Scotland around 20 years ago. The problem there was that young local people were forced out of the housing market by second homes and holiday lets. They then tended to migrate to the bigger cities and there wasn’t enough local labour to actually service the tourist industry that these could have been creating. Any attempt to build suitable affordable accommodation was opposed by the people who had bought the additional housing because it would have undermined their investment and they didn’t want a few newbuilds spoiling their view.

At the time the hospitality industry were able to rely on seasonal workers from Poland and the like. I’m assuming that one is well out of the window.

1 Like

I think it’s even more tragic than that. I think the vast majority of MPs wanted a soft Brexit.

However as the shit hit the fan, in the Trump like way of declaring a victory, they simply argued that was always the plan.

Although they will all claim we got the Brexit they wanted, I suspect it’s a Brexit only 10% maybe wanted.

2 Likes

So in what way has Labour departed from them?

Labour left the working class behind ever since new labour came into being, for all his faults Corbyn at least hung on to a lot of the ideals that made him stand out for traditional voters, and the fact he was anti EU would have struck a chord with many labour voters but when they saw that he was stifled by new labour and couldn’t express his views on the referendum, I think that was a final nail for many who blindly vote along the lines of “I’ve always voted labour”.