Ultimately this is all irrelevant. Rishi will win. Although I did just hear he’s gone into the whole trans women debate, berk.
Proportional representation would be a start I think.
Then I’d be having a really close look a MP salary, expenses, along with the funding of groups and think tanks etc.
There’s a massive problem with the press but how you deal with that and maintain a free press is another matter entirely. But the link between politics and politicians needs to be severed or at the very least changed.
How to do a that? Fuck knows.
That only leaves me with the option of an independent Wales and start afresh here. Let England eat itself as it currently is.
Frankly, I have no idea. I mostly watch all of this with an outsider’s point of view, and with the added academic interest in the psychology of it all. If I had a clue, I’d probably start a political party or at least campaign hard enough within one to change the face of politics, but I don’t.
In my mind, there are several main issues, all intertwined, that make this whole adventure impossible. Starting with tribalism. Too often, I see people being interviewed define themselves as a “lifelong Conservative voter” or “lifelong Labour voter”, or “coming from a Labour-voting family”, etc. That already sets the klaxons ringing in my head. The two parties have changed so much, even between consecutive elections, that that idea seems implausible, almost. It’s all about their identity, even though they don’t think it’s so. Very often I then see them espouse values and political beliefs antithetical to their supposed tribe, even though that party has never espoused such values to begin with. I would argue that many “red wall” voters in 2019 were just re-aligning with their true beliefs to begin with, that the idea that they were natural Labour voters is thoroughly wrong. Not just on social policy, but also on economic policy. They had nothing in common with Labour. Same goes for many Conservative/Liberal Democrat voters in the South. They want more economic solidarity, less government intervention socially, but that’s not been a platform that either of those two (less so the Liberal Democrats) have had for a long time, if ever.
This tribalism is exacerbated by social media, even though the latter isn’t the original sin. It’s just the next natural evolution in information flow. It enables people to exchange information (in the technical, computing sense rather than arguing whether it’s information or opinion) much faster. Combine that with the attentional scarcity in part brought on by the demands of modern life, and you have a cocktail for people to seek out things that satisfy their confirmation bias, rather than challenge their own opinions. Especially with the human need for social approval, it makes clustering into the aforementioned tribes a lot better. On the other hand, I tend to have more time on my hands than most, which makes it easier to pay attention to many of these things. This also makes me really hate right-wing media, since so much of it is coloured by opinion rather than actual reporting. For example, I’m looking for a right-wing Grauniad, i.e. a publication that has really good journalism, covering issues that are more interesting to people of their political bent, while having an opinion page that I rarely bother with. The closest I’ve found is the Financial Times (if anyone wants to sponsor a subscription for me), but it’s not even a right-wing outlet. This prevailing culture and socio-economic environment promotes competition between competing media outlets for attention, so whatever makes the shortest, most attention-catching (which is often the most reasonable, yet outlandish claim) wins.
I do think that getting rid of FPTP will help things, but it’s not the ultimate panacea that many people are looking for. There needs to be a lot more civic education, a lot more involvement by individuals in political life. I see it all the time, where people express rather strongly-held political views, but do absolutely nothing to try to contribute in a tangible way, and then complain that they’re disenfranchised. Government needs to be reworked somehow that enables the 66 million people on these isles and beyond to feel as though that they can be heard, that someone shares their beliefs, and is fighting for them.
But beyond these ramblings, I don’t really have a clue at all.
Far from certain. I think Johnson’s camp have been briefing against him for months. There appear to be a significant number of conservatives who are unhappy with how MPs have pushed the PM into stepping down. Then there is all the other stuff - the culture wars, tax cuts and brexit that may be popular with some of those voting but he has been on the periphery over.
it’s all a waste of time. no matter which party you support or which person ‘wins’ they will do fuck all for the common man - if anything they do benefits a person other than themselves or their friends it is done purely as a inevitable side effect. It is not their purpose. Some will fight the odd good cause but only if it benefits them and raises their profile.
I am yet to se one of the MP mofos going round town clearing up dog shit or fixing street lights on a regular basis - but come voting time… " oh yes we will do this this and this". WILL YOU FUCK!
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BREAKING NEWS: MP PICKS UP LITTER THEY SAW ON THE STREET.
Is this how low we’ve fallen, that we want something like that to make the news?
And that’s how the very same people who do precisely that get back into power, under the guise that “they’re the same as the other side”, and then people wonder why no one’s fighting their corner, while the ones who actually do care don’t get elected because of that reason.
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Cheers redalways and noo_noo, especially about tribalisms and the press (I think we all agree how shit the press are).
Tbh I don’t know if the damage that has been done over the years can ever be dialled back , I mean we all hope it could , but there is a large part which was touched upon by the two of you (media and tribalisms ) that have become so entrenched and toxic ( the media whilst trying to portray themselves as a free and fair press imo is bollix) , I think we can all agree it’s nice to think it can and we’d be happy to support anyone who could actually do it , but those with the power that they have been able to exert wil not give up without a fight .
Classic example would be to look at starmer, besides beergate let’s all be honest , because we’ve seen it happen so many times , but the press will have been looking for dirt on him from day one, and they either sit on it for a while to use later or they exert influence over them and this control them in some way.
I know mascot made a point which is almost comical about ed milliband losing because he ate a bacon sandwich and normally it would comical, but the reality was he ate a sandwich and yet the press vilified him in such a way that you’d think he was eating a newborn.
Anyways have a good Sunday all 
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you are totally missing the point. the ‘good ones’ are just the fucking same. look back through history. They start out with good ideas and promises and end up being corrupted by power and greed and they lose touch with reality. I don’t have a particular political persuasion i like to judge each on their onw merits. Be them local councillors/MPs they don’t care when they get to a point where they can make a difference. People who want to make a difference don’t need politics… they do it by becoming doctors, nurses, fire fighters and helping the vulnerable.
It’s been the same for centuries. it’s not a new thing. Fighting and falling out over political parties is insane - go make a difference yourselves if what is happening is so important to you. (by you i mean ‘one’)
Good point here, but one has to wonder, if they pushed so hard on something as irrelevant as “beergate”, then can they truly find something that’s as abhorrent as the most minor of Johnson’s scandals, or will they bacon sandwich him?
just keep Starmer out of greasy spoon cafes during campaigning
I agree and disagree. I think part of it is that it’s easy to talk a big game when you’re campaigning, but when you actually have to govern, you can’t just govern for one faction of the country, you have to govern for all. Furthermore, there’s only so much one can do in terms of understanding the scale of the problem when not in government. So when they are indeed in government, the challenges often mean a bigger compromise in terms of what problems to fight first, that it looks from the outside like giving in to corruption.
Another part of it is the natural tendency to make heroes of people, and make them seem infallible, when in reality, that is very far from the case. When not in power, their frailties are much less under the microscope when they are in power, and in any case, if they do corrupt, then vote them out. Politics is not a one-off and done. It’s a constant work, and expecting your life to change because you voted one way once is absurd.
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and away from bigoted voters. Could be tricky.
Be careful, Richard Holden might just accuse you of something…
Let’s lighten the mood up in here a little shall we?
Is brexit now wildly unpopular in england?
Yeah, I hate those voters who only see what they’ve always considered to be true. Historically only think one way and never vary. Bastards they are.
That’s why I’m still a staunch left wing Catholic…….
I don’t expect my life to change! i fully take into account all what you said before i posted. The point is it will always be the same - you ll spend 4 years arguing the toss (in general) and then power will shift (perhaps) and rinse and repeat.
IF the person has a genuine belief they acan make a difference.- they should find another way to do it. IF they don’t examine history and ask questions of why do people struggle to make a difference in politics - then they probably aren’t smart enough to make a difference anyway.
Feels like a waste of time when i see people arguing and debating stuff - one might die tomorrow and all that arguing over politics won’t have made a jot of difference in terms of the big picture. One shouldn’t waste their life.
I don’t care what your political stance is - just enjoy your life everyone <3 Make a difference to the people you love and care about and bollocks to these knobs.
Not for people who voted for it in the main. My dad’s doom and gloom of no veg in the supermarkets amazingly never came true.
Sorry, it was a reference to the Gordon Brown incident.
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When i was a kid of around 5 years old i can remember living on a council estate and next to the house we had a plot of land that we shared with a neighbour. we used to grow our own veg.