UK Politics Thread (Part 2)

Liz Truss has just been interviewed on Today on Radio 4. An absolute embarrassment.

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I caught some of that. Emblematic of this government’s penchant for lying I thought was her answer to a question about the dire consequences for Brits going over to Ukraine to fight if ,and once , they were taken prisoner. She boldly stated that she would never recommend that they go , and was then duly reminded that she had actually encouraged them to do so back in February with a direct quote from her. These fuckers are shameless.

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How can the UK dispute they are breaking international law? They have already said they are breaking international law!

It’s like you can be at a party and not at a party and it wasn’t a party that were or weren’t at (or not).
It’s also possible to sign an agreement that is or isn’t binding or possibly even an agreement at all depending on your point of view or pertaining to the clauses in paragraph 17 (or not).
So there you have it. Let’s get Brexit done!

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It’s ok if you’re specific.

I think this is really damaging and any thoughts of the UK actually progressing post Brexit after this will be gone.

Anyhow, I thought business in N Ireland was doing well, thanks to the protocol?

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Essentially the act doesn’t break international law but potentially allows the UK to break international law (in a limited and specific way…remember? :roll_eyes: )

As to whether the powers the UK is giving itself to act unilaterally is a breach of the agreement with the EU, and specifically the Protocol, is a breach then that sort of depends on how you view it. These are some of the issues of the Protocol that have come into focus when it has come to be implemented.

Recitals

EMPHASISING that in order to ensure democratic legitimacy, there should be a process to ensure
democratic consent in Northern Ireland to the application of Union law under this Protocol

RECALLING that Northern Ireland is part of the customs territory of the United Kingdom and will
benefit from participation in the United Kingdom’s independent trade policy

HAVING REGARD to the importance of maintaining the integral place of Northern Ireland in the
United Kingdom’s internal market

Article 6.2 (protection of the UK internal market)

Having regard to Northern Ireland’s integral place in the United Kingdom’s internal market, the
Union and the United Kingdom shall use their best endeavours to facilitate the trade between
Northern Ireland and other parts of the United Kingdom, in accordance with applicable
legislation and taking into account their respective regulatory regimes as well as the
implementation thereof. The Joint Committee shall keep the application of this paragraph
under constant review and shall adopt appropriate recommendations with a view to avoiding
controls at the ports and airports of Northern Ireland to the extent possible.

Article 16 (yep, that one), subparagraph 1

If the application of this Protocol leads to serious economic, societal or environmental
difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade, the Union or the United Kingdom
may unilaterally take appropriate safeguard measures. Such safeguard measures shall be
restricted with regard to their scope and duration to what is strictly necessary in order to
remedy the situation. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the
functioning of this Protocol

The difficulty in knowing which side is being difficult or not is that we don’t know what discussions are being had by the Joint Committee or the Specialised Committee for Northern Ireland Protocol. With both sides briefing in their best interest it’s difficult to get an objective view as to whether the UK has tried putting forward reasonable proposals or whether the EU is being unduly obstructive.

However, there is certainly scope, already provided for in the protocol (above), for the UK to unilaterally suspend parts of the protocol if its implementation is leading to serious societal difficulties or threatening the GFA.

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Thanks for the clarification. Some questions though.

Difficulties for who? Trade in N Ireland is booming having unrestricted access to the EU.

Is it really threatening the GFA or is it more frustration at the kipper Unionists were sold by Boris and Frost?

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I dont get it. In Northern Ireland we have access to the GB market, and can trade freely with the EU.

Its suggested that the protocol as it is, will make a United Ireland more likely as we’ll be more aligned with ROI. Surely it will be less likely as we have access to both markets and seem to be doing better economically than before.

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NI has the best of both worlds. No surprise it’s one of only two areas of the UK to be above pre pandemic levels of output (the other being London).

I think the NI Protocol could work better, but it isn’t disastrous imo. The DUP are making more of it for political purposes.

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Just maybe an unrelated curious question. If Northern Ireland and Ireland wants to merge as one united Ireland, legally would NI need to first to get permission to have a referendum to leave the UK or is the UK obliged to let them as long they indicate a willingness to?

There would be war

Once the secretary of state for Northern Ireland - currently Brandon Lewis, believes there is enough support in Northern Ireland for it he is supposed to call a referendum. There will then be 2 referendums, one in NI, and one in ROI. If both votes pass then we have a united Ireland.

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With Sinn Fein now in the majority couldn’t it already be argued that threshold has been reached ?

27 out of 90 isn’t a majority

They aren’t, and never will be, the majority. They are the biggest block and thus head the governing coalition.

But they do now broadly represent a majority of people in NI.

They are still associated with the IRA and will never find support among the 48% of the population who are protestant.
Obviously they’ve moved to the centre, but it’s difficult to imagine a time when they are supported by a majority unless there are dramatic demographic changes.