UK Politics Thread (Part 3)

[Klopptimist]

@RedWhippet

They then campaigned against Khan for introducing the thing that they insisted Khan did because he was Muslim or something.

That’s going to need some evidence mate.

[RedWhippet]

@Klopptimist

That’s going to need some evidence mate.

This, for example?

Tory MP Lee Anderson claims ‘Islamists’ have got control of Sadiq Khan

[Klopptimist]

The word “claim” is doing the heavy lifting here.

[RedWhippet]

Well I didn’t say that anything they were saying was true.

Khan is Muslim. There’s no argument about that. However, the Tories and far-right lunatics have tried to portray him as some sort of Islamist fundamentalist, the sort of people Khan describes as unrepresentative and “angry men with beards”.

[Klopptimist]

I suppose that if you ally yourself to a cause / religion, expect to be tarred by a broad brush.

[RedWhippet]

@Klopptimist

I suppose that if you ally yourself to a cause / religion, expect to be tarred by a broad brush.

“Tarring with a broad brush” is pretty much the basis of any bigotry: islamophobia, antisemitism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, sexism, xenophobia, etc, etc.

They are all based on the same thing: portray a negative attribute on a whole group of people based solely on a tiny unrepresentative sample of that group.

You do get that Khan isn’t the extremist one here?

[Klopptimist]

Absolutely, I don’t disagree. Identity politics is a dangerous thing. “You’re part of a group so you believe QYZ”

[Mascot]

@redalways

Sex education in English schools set to be banned before children are nine | Education | The Guardian

ULEZ failed, so I guess now they’re trying a new front on the culture wars…

Delaying education on contraception until 13 is absolute fucking insanity. Everywhere you suppress sex education, you get unwanted teen pregnancies following, like night follows day.

Are they running out of teenage single mums to demonise to the extent they have to stage this intervention?

[Mascot]

@RedOverTheWater

Hopefully the UK achieves a happy, and reasonable, middle ground. Here in America education is a real flashpoint in the culture wars. In many States splinter groups, and parent groups, seem to have way too much sway over professional educators, and things have become politicized and book banning is rife, and certain topics are taboo and so on.

I would hate for the UK to go far down that path, as it seems pretty extremist.

Equally, it is right for topics to be raised and discussed in an age appropriate way, and it is reasonable for parents to be aware of what is being taught (not to run the show, but to ensure a good partnership between school and home, as in their formative years that’s the two places where kids will spend their time).

My memory of the UK is that generally speaking adults are running the show and reasonable conversations and solutions can be found, whereas since I’ve lived in America education seems on a knife edge and various topics, and triggers, send people into battle mode, and people talk past each other and fight, while the poor kids are in the middle.

I think the UK set itself on a dangerous path when it decided, in a moment of collective madness, that expertise was something to be disregarded in favour of base reflex feelings.

The people to listen to on education issues are educators and medical and developmental professionals. Children should, for their own protection, have a decent knowledge of contraception by the age of 13.

Parents should not be interfering in curriculum matters and politicians should not be encouraging this. I wonder if the ‘let children be children’ mob ever consider that getting pregnant is a pretty definitive premature end to childhood.

[aussielad]

So by that logic, whenever you moan about tv shows or films bringing in a black lead character we can tar you with the same brush as the KKK?

[Limiescouse]

@Mascot

I think the UK set itself on a dangerous path when it decided, in a moment of collective madness, that expertise was something to be disregarded in favour of base reflex feelings.

Sending out the @Magnus signal with this one, but this is a good read on this movement

Where the issue probably diverts between the US and the UK is a lot of the moves in the US to influence public education are not intended to improve it, but to get concerns about standards and curriculums into the public consciousness to such a level of salience that faith in state schools erodes and people start seeking out private options. Kind of like the tories with the NHS.

[Mascot]

@Limiescouse

Where the issue probably diverts between the US and the UK is a lot of the moves in the US to influence public education are not intended to improve it, but to get concerns about standards and curriculums into the public consciousness to such a level of salience that faith in state schools erodes and people start seeking out private options. Kind of like the tories with the NHS.

That’s really interesting. I’ve always viewed the US education issues being another manifestation of puritanical religious desire for control rather than an attempt to deliberately run down the service.

[Limiescouse]

You definitely see that as a motivation, and an authentic one, of the people who show up to the meetings to cause a fuss. But they, and racists, are being weaponized by the monied interests behind the scenes trying to create an environment where the state has enough cover to direct education funds to private companies rather continuing to give them to “failing public schools trying to indoctrinate your children into being trans, and making friends with black children”

[Arminius]

@aussielad

So by that logic, whenever you moan about tv shows or films bringing in a black lead character we can tar you with the same brush as the KKK?

Oh, great, you’ll have him going on about ‘Woke Mad Max’ now

[Magnus]

A very good book indeed ! My favorite grumpy conservative. He is actually a…human

[RedOverTheWater]

I agree with this. The curriculum should be set by a broad base of experts, not parents. And 13 is too old to learn about contraception.

I’m just wondering if, at some point, reasonable concerns of parents may have been overlooked?

I don’t live in the UK any more and I wouldn’t know the answer to that, but usually things become issues when there isn’t good dialog early on. Then things get entrenched and people talk past each other and represent the other viewpoint with the worst examples.

The last time I was in the UK, experiencing the education system, it was in taking my daughter to a lovely preschool. The main concerns were ABCs, numbers, art, music, playing with other children and making friends.

[Klopptimist]

There’s a very good reason why UK primary schools end at 11. I always thought it was obvious. Start SE in high school and if any child shows obvious signs of starting early (if you take my meaning) then it’s the parent’s responsibility. As it always is.

[RedWhippet]

@RedOverTheWater

The last time I was in the UK, experiencing the education system, it was in taking my daughter to a lovely preschool. The main concerns were ABCs, numbers, art, music, playing with other children and making friends.

I got that impression from my sister. Her children thrived at primary school. However, the secondary school sounds like some sort of concentration camp. It’s an “academy” which is some sort of privately run state school. There have been many children who have developed mental health issues, particularly my niece, although even my nephew decided to run off because he couldn’t take their shit any more.

[cynicaloldgit]

Interesting that, on the day that Starmer announces his plans for the first steps under a Labour government, the “woke” BBC leads with Putin’s trip to Russia.

[RedWhippet]

@cynicaloldgit

BBC leads with Putin’s trip to Russia.

I thought he lived there?

It’s interesting that the BBC have switched their apps to point directly to an international news version. I occasionally come across stories that are blocked on the international app. Presumably, only cleared for domestic consumption.