You know and I know and the whole of the UK know Labour are going to win anyway.
Their muffins are nice too. However, alot of people love their sausage rolls, meat and vegan as well. They often get sold out.
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Starmer is getting lots of shit from the âtheyâre all the sameâ crowd (a view that has been deliberately cultivated by right wing opinion formers).
But what Starmer essentially brings is competence, integrity and stability. Iâll take that with both hands after the last ten years.
Something you have to remember about Starmer and his team is that they are incredibly pragmatic. Everything the left criticises him for is out of touch with reality.
Brexit? What is the point opening that wound, when there is no prospect of Britain rejoining the EU. The EU will not consider our membership while political and public opinion is still fragmented, and even then it would inevitably be on worse terms than we had in 2015. Weâd be looking at having to adopt the Euro, more regulatory alignment, and no rebate this time. And if Le Pen gets in (god help us all) there may not even be an EU in a decade.
Spending/Taxation? I think it not acknowledged just how little scope there is for either taxing or borrowing, and how but that is going to constrain ambition. Certainly after Truss, our capacity to borrow is still really compromised. And Labour canât go into the election talking about raising taxes. Any tax rises, even for the most wealthy, get spun into a toxic issue. I think a fairer more distributive regime is on the way, but Labour have to get in power first, and need to stabilise public finances first.
Immigration? As painful as it is, and as bollocks as it is migration is still a toxic issue for lots of people, and thatâs because Governments have used migration as a means of deflecting blame from their own failings for decades (Labour arenât spotless on this). Labour have to give the impression of toughness while getting on with a fair system.
I donât know how you go about combatting the cynicism that the last 14 years have fostered in public life, especially when the country is in such a state that big ambition is really difficult. But I feel very confident saying that Starmer, despite the bullshit that gets spoken about him, is more instinctively left wing than Blair. Without a doubt.
Blair was always a wolf in sheepâs clothing. Very little of the left about him. Starmer is a more traditional Labour leader, with far less scope - in finances, or public attitude, or media tolerance - to apply labour policies.
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Only if people vote for them. The biggest danger now, a day before the general election, is the public going âAh well they are going to win anywayâ and not bothering.
If everyone thinks everyone else is going to vote Labour for them, that is the ray of hope the Tories, or worse, have.
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Reported.
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I understand what you are saying and I am not disputing what you said.
As a 2nd generation immigrant, whose household has traditionally voted Labour, both parties have really upset alot of Black and other ethnic minorities including members of their their own party. The youngsters donât trust these the politicians.
I am not going to vote for any party who supports genocide. The Black community are angry in the way the windrush generation have been treated as well. They are usually Labour, even they are have had enough. They donât trust any party. They arenât voting Labour or not voting at all. This is not just me. Most of us feel like this. Sorry!
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So theyâre not going to vote for Labour because of the way they have been treated by the Conservatives?
That makes perfect sense.
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Perhaps they do in your circle of friends, but not in mine.
Every single non-white person I know is voting Labour. Why? Because only Starmer or Sunak will be Prime Minister on Friday.
Many of us (myself included) will be holding our noses while we do so, but we would rather see Starmer in No 10 than have another five years of this vicious, vindictive and venal Tory government.
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You donât understand, its other things as well, institutionalised Police racism. I feel that our country, since Brexit has become more insular and more intolerant. Both parties have emboldened the racists to come out the woodwork.
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And how is any of that Labourâs fault? They canât change things when theyâre not in power.
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Labour have not convinced me enough that will do things differently, they are not sincere.
Okay, for arguments sake, i wear a face mask and put an x against Labour in the ballot and 5 years later, I see no improvement, then what?
Under Labour, the UK participated in war in Iraq ( looking for WMD!) and other countries, where you have displacement of peopleâĄď¸ refugeesâĄď¸ people fleeing to safe havens. Labour are not our Saviours, they can be ruthless if they want to be.
Itâs just fucking maddening, isnât it
I find really baffling that Labour are held to account for things the Tories have done more than the actual bloody Tories.
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So you are going to not vote Labour because of something the party did twenty years ago when it was run by entirely different people, and instead risk the Tories getting in who are the same people that have spent the last 14 years ruining the country.
You donât have to tell me how bad the Iraq war was. I left the party and didnât vote Labour for years after that.
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Maybe people are just tired of the two party state that we have had since the 30âsâŚitâs always wash, rinse, repeat âŚand maybe people just want an actual real change to the political dynamics of the political of the country?
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Would you be able to politely explain to them that the Windrush scandal was the entirely the Conservative Party, and Labour have not in fact been in power for 14 years. Or give me their phone numbers so I can call them and let them know?
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Oh really @Mascot , I didnât know this.
What party did you see yourself close to in those years?
What made you come to Labour?
It is the current Middle East situation I am referring to.
@Mascot , I will pass it on to themâ:blush:
. I grew with their kids and we all went to the same schools together and played together on the streets.
If people want real change why was Corbyn so roundly defeated at the polls?
The rise of Reform suggests about 15% the population want permission to blame brown people for everything thatâs going wrong in their lives. The other 75% quite like centrism.
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Corbyn was roundly defeated because for years he was against the EU, and when it came to the crunch he basically dropped his opposition to leaving.
Then the rags basically were able to do any hit job on him as someone who could not be trusted as he had been shown to be a ditherer when it came to his personal beliefs.
Do you honestly think the red wall collapse would have happened if he had the courage to stand by his convictions?
Yes, because the masses had been brainwashed into thinking that everything wrong in their lives was due to immigrants and not chronic underinvestment for decades under both the Tories and New Labour.
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Itâs unfair to expect the British govt (regardless of the party) to grow a spine and oppose the US w.r.t foreign policy
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