UK Politics Thread (Part 3)

[aussielad]

@redalways

or maybe

[Klopptimist]

This government is FUCKiNG INSANE.

Junk food ban: What is included under new advert rules for online?

[SBYM]

So much follow through.

It is glorious.

The UK is in safe hands. Finally.

[Dane]

So it would seem.

[Lynch04]

@redalways

Or perhaps, as you have just demonstrated, the societal structures that @SBYM was ranting about, combined with the right-wing propaganda machine, makes virtually everything Labour’s fault.

Huh, how have I done that? The Tories have completely screwed up the country by bad leadership over their 14 years in government, In particular since 2019, Truss alone almost destroyed the economy, this is all Tories fault.
Yet with all the Tories bad decisions, Labour did not increase its popular vote, This is fact.
I will probably be corrected but I didn’t see any societal structures in SBYM’s post. Just his opinion, which he is entitled to but it is not supported.
What is this right wing propaganda machine you refer to?

[Lynch04]

@SBYM

Oh no…that graph doesn’t look so good for us at all, does it…

Where did that money come from, I wonder??

So is the UK an abnormality? Are we the only country to see the combined wealth of the richest grow?
Your post is speculative, why don’t you tell me where that money come from? Or maybe I am to research that for you aswell?

[Lynch04]

@SBYM

It is 100% not a free hit.

The Tories (as any opposition party does) will attack Labour for every error, misstep or blunder.

The difference now is that an almost wholly complicit media will do the kicking for them.

And yes, Labour has been unelectable for quite some time now. That’s how elections work.

Thing is, being shit in opposition does not mean what the Tories have done to the UK over the past 14 years is any less negligent. One of the richest countries in the world and it is a fucking dumpster fire.

Response to your points.
I understand how politics work. At the moment anything the Tories say can be redirected back at them, because they put us in this mess. Labour are already making decisions which may seem unpopular, on the basis of a budget deficit.

What media do you refer to? A couple of right wing papers with a circulation in the low millions or the neutral BBC with a viewing audience of 39m.

Yes, I said that. Why were they unelectable?

Completely agree with this point.

[gasband]

Why is it insane though? Putting aside how effective it can be, I don’t think banning these will affect anyone? I am not sure there will be groups protesting that they cannot watch junk food advertisements anymore. And furthermore, childhood obesity is a real problem and it’s better tackled as early as possible before they grow up and puts more stress on the health system?

[gasband]

I think it’s fair to still put the blame on Tories because being in charge for this long, they surely have to take the blame for everything that is going wrong (or to be fair, anything that went right too). Labour can’t be changing anything much in a couple of months. However the test will be in 3,4 years and if by then Labour still does not do anything of worth (you can’t reverse everything but there must be milestones), and blames it on Tories still, then we know it’s going to be shite again.

[gasband]

Also I have a honest question. Does anyone like Labour for what it is? Or they support Labour only as a lesser evil and not that it is a great party? I am asking because it seems in the lead up to the elections, I hear overwhelmingly, not just here, that ‘while I don’t necessarily align with Labour, I actually support Greens/Lib Dems etc, but in order to get rid of Tories, I have to vote Labour’. How much percent do you think of those Labour votes belong to this group of people?

It then leads me to wonder, this election showed that there is a credible and substantial third force in Lib Dems? And if assuming that Tories and Labour no longer represented the aspirations of the public, why shouldn’t people vote for the party they really wanted (I don’t know though what Lib Dems really preached though), if let’s say if 15% of those who voted Labour actually wanted to vote Lib Dems and went through with that, it would make them even higher than the Tories, wouldn’t that be a better reflection and gives Lib Dems a better mandate to fight for the next few elections?

But instead, here the British getting stuck in a cycle of voting for 2 parties that they may not really liked?

I know it’s vastly different but the recent election in Taiwan also showed a credible third force and alot of Taiwanese especially the younger ones are very happy with that because similarly, the 2 dominant parties just do not give them what they want.

[Lynch04]

@Noo_Noo

Theres a number of issues here.

1. Public contracts are more expensive. Thats down to procurement procedures and rules that need to be adhered to.
2. The private contracts need to be administered and managed. That requires project managers and money.
3. Typically a private contractor will target in the region of 40% gross profit.
4. I also bet the contracts have more holes in them than my edam brain.

Yes you do need an avatar. I thought you were someone else for a moment

I work in construction, and the whole wastage/mismanagement of projects really does annoy me. Same goes with Facility management contracts and what little value they provide for their huge annual budgets.
Unfortunately, you have a lot of people overseeing these projects who deal solely in spreadsheets and figures. If the budget is there, they will rarely question how the figures were calculated.

You seem more knowledgeable than me in this area, what are your thoughts on how these issues can be addressed?

[Lynch04]

@gasband

I think it’s fair to still put the blame on Tories because being in charge for this long, they surely have to take the blame for everything that is going wrong (or to be fair, anything that went right too). Labour can’t be changing anything much in a couple of months. However the test will be in 3,4 years and if by then Labour still does not do anything of worth (you can’t reverse everything but there must be milestones), and blames it on Tories still, then we know it’s going to be shite again.

I completely agree with blaming the Tories for the wrong decisions they have made has contributed to the dire situation the UK is in.
I personally do not believe Labour had a mandate that sold me to vote Labour. It seemed they focused on “change” without actually stating what that meant.
However, maybe that was all it needed. I actually feel quite positive about this government, and am very intrigued about how they implement their ideas. Like a Football team needs to give a new manager time to implement their ideas, the public need to give a government time to implement their policies. Sure they will make some bad decisions, that is to be expected.

[RedWhippet]

@gasband

I don’t think banning these will affect anyone?

Ot could have a bad effect on advertising revenue. I’m not sure quite what it would effect as things like original children’s programming was pushed largely on to the BBC years ago.

[RedWhippet]

@Lynch04

Unfortunately, you have a lot of people overseeing these projects who deal solely in spreadsheets and figures. If the budget is there, they will rarely question how the figures were calculated.

This is a major problem with government contracts, because they will look at single year figures and not the total cost of the contract.

There are also ideological pressures. Many public services were put out to private contractors because of a philosophy that the private sector is always more efficient. Often the external accountancy firms brought in to justify the decisions had to blatantly fudge the figures to justify their decisions.

[redalways]

@gasband

if let’s say if 15% of those who voted Labour actually wanted to vote Lib Dems and went through with that, it would make them even higher than the Tories, wouldn’t that be a better reflection and gives Lib Dems a better mandate to fight for the next few elections?

Geographical concentrations. The reality is that without proportional representation of some sort, there’s always a natural ceiling as if people voted for the party they really wanted, in most seats the Conservatives would still win.

Also, the credibility of the Liberal Democrats vary by election, but the drop-of in their support compared to the “big two” is quite obvious.

[redalways]

@Lynch04

Huh, how have I done that?

@Lynch04

People blaming the Tories for everything that has gone wrong over the last 14 years may need to look at themselves and the opposition.

Is this not blaming Labour for it?

@Lynch04

I will probably be corrected but I didn’t see any societal structures in SBYM’s post. Just his opinion, which he is entitled to but it is not supported.

What in particular is not supported, the notion that British people in general still have a deference to their “betters”?

@Lynch04

What is this right wing propaganda machine you refer to?

How left or right-wing are the UK’s newspapers? | YouGov

Partisan publishers: Why Keir Starmer will have an easier election than Neil...

@Lynch04

A couple of right wing papers with a circulation in the low millions or the neutral BBC with a viewing audience of 39m.

Did I miss where BBC News has a viewing audience of 39m? Even Barb suggests just 10.9m (Monthly Viewing by channel/service Barb).

That’s also ignoring the whole issue of the political of lean of the BBC, which I am not going to touch. But I think it’s well-covered how Question Time has regularly covered/promoted the far right disproportionately to their voting/support figures.

[RedWhippet]

The only thing I would point out with that is that it doesn’t cover online output.

I tried to find some figures but they are not entirely reliable:

Top 50 UK news websites in July: Sky News jumps into third place

They put the BBC as the most viewed but they don’t separate news from entertainment. I suspect they may still be top but I doubt it is by much of a margin. Also, they don’t cover news taken from non-conventional news media.

[Rambler]

So Sky news has an audience of 23m. Really? I don’t know anyone who watches sky news. Does anyone in here based in the UK ever watch sky news?

Apart from my brother I don’t know anyone amongst friends and relatives who buys a newspaper any more. I haven’t bought one for at least 10 years. No idea where they get these figures. I was only discussing it on Saturday night with my gang of cronies at my sports club and not one person could remember when they last bought the Echo. Being all over 70 we are supposedly the demographic that still buys newspapers.

[Dane]

@Rambler

So Sky news has an audience if 23m. Really? I don’t know anyone who watches sky news. Does anyone in here based in the UK ever watch sky news?

I don’t know anyone who likes Donald Trump, or Elon Musk.
Doesn’t mean there aren’t millions (of complete cunts) who do

[redalways]

I was going to say, I think it’s a function of @Rambler’s social circle.

I still see newspapers regularly carried in shops and supermarkets (although not sure how many of those actually sell), so surely there has to be at least some audience somewhere.