Except when it was a labour government that promised the nation a referendum on EU membership, and then went back on their word.
I presume youâre talking about this: United Kingdom European Constitution referendum - Wikipedia?
If so, it seems it was never held because the question became moot. It was never a referendum on membership.
The only other reference to such a promise that I can find is the 1975 referendum that was actually held by the Wilson government.
2 Likes
Yes, that was precisely what I was talking about.
It became moot because the proposed constitution was abandoned, and superseded by the Treaty of Lisbon.
It was also never a referendum on membership.
2 Likes
Itâs about 20% of total government spending, or 33% of its spending on public services, so i dont see anything anywhere near alarming here.
Following brexit we need probably more public sector workers not fewer.
Pay conditions for public sector employees has eroded significantly over the last 14 years and with a significant number coming up to retirement age, it is proving challenging for the public sector as it is to fill critical vacancies.
1 Like
I completely agree about people being fuckwits and public perception does not equal to reality.
However, are policies about facts? Or merely inline with what the voters want?
Facts have no emotion, no opinion or bias. If they hurt someoneâs feelings it is due to acceptance.
They campaigned and promised a referendum in the run up to the 97 election and the idea was that it was to see if we would join the single currency etcâŚagain that never materialised either , but the belief was there was strong opposition to it and euro fanatic blair once in power dropped it, simply because the press had played it as a vote for staying in/out of Europe âŚyou can interpret it whichever way you want , but the vast amount of people would have viewed it as a say on EU membership in any way , and the opportunity to say no to another lying government about forced union etc was a chance to bloody their nose, and Blair was worried about it so much he dropped (lied) etc.
Fancy that, dropping a referendum because the polling suggests that the answer was strongly in favour of one side no matter whatever scenario was spun, as acknowledged by the link in your next post.
What were they supposed to do, spend public money for a referendum that was only going to yield one result?
Your link suggests that it would have been a great opportunity to open the debate, noting that at one point, i.e. the most significant point, Europe was considered an important issue facing Britain by 43% of the population. Not so much that people favoured exiting the EU, just that it was considered an important issue.
By the way, just 24% of people now think that being out of the EU is a good idea: https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/only-24-britons-think-country-should-be-outside-eu-report-finds-2024-06-12/
I canât find any consistent (as in same methodology, same pollster) polling prior to 2010, but if I recall correctly, EU membership has always been a fringe (read <20%) concern for most people. Itâs only an extremely vocal minority of Eurosceptics who keep banging on that drum.
The LSE article argues that in hindsight, it would have been a good idea to open the debate then, but I would say that if anything, it would have kept the UK in the EU for longer.
EDIT:
Also, you seem to substitute your own views for âthe vast majorityâ of people. Without any polling done, Iâm not sure you can make a definitive statement that way.
2 Likes
And New Labour werenât really Labour.
2 Likes
How can a generalised question like this possibly be answered? There is a shortage of doctors, nurses, teachers etc. Which âpublic servantsâ are you referring to?
1 Like
Those ones, the ones I donât like!
(No offence to you @redbj, I just couldnât resist that)
1 Like
I assume your post is tongue in cheek?
I suppose it is only the UK that is not experiencing the prosperity levels of the 90âs/2000âs. I noticed you said early 2000âs, so when did the Tories come into power? Iâm sure the late 2000âs under a Labour Government involved a recession, where people were having their houses repossessed, etc?
Was Brexit solely a Tory misadventure?
They used it as part of their mandate to secure the election because there was a call for it amongst the public. So much so that when the referendum took place there was a narrow majority to leave. Im pretty sure that David Cameron, the PM at the time was pro-remain.
Unfortunately, your post, irrelevant of it being tongue in cheek or not, is part of the problem with our country. It is too easy for people to make excuses, blame someone else and that is a society problem not a Government problem.
Well they were the ones that put it in their manifesto and then pressed on with it when it was pretty obvious it was a completely idiotic venture. Whatâs their excuse? The big boys made me do it?
1 Like
So if they put it in their manifesto and didnât press on with itâŚâŚ
Except of course the Labour leader refused to campaign against Brexit and had voted against the EU every single opportunity he had. I do blame him and to a certain extent the party too. If he had actively campaigned I believe it would have made the difference. The truth is that the left wing cabal ruling the party were delighted with the outcome of the vote.
1 Like
You mean because there was a political threat to the right of his party. Not to mention the role of UKIP as the most prominent protest vote, regardless of the actual policies they espoused.
The only time during which there was such a majority actually, and it took years of propaganda and falsehoods to make that happen for that brief moment.
In fact, at the moment of the 2015 elections, remain were leading in opinion polling. Note that at no point did either point of view command a majority in polling terms.
1 Like
Then a bunch of halfwit fucknuts would throw a tantrum and everyone else would ignore them. As it was, it was an advisory referendum and there were sufficient possibilities to either reverse it or to implement it in a manner which was least damaging to the country. As it was, they chose more or less the most extreme position and purged anyone who even remotely objected to it in their own party.
Sorry, but the Tories can own the entire mess.
Precisely⌠weasel words. He has always had an anti EU agenda. Look at his voting record.
This is hardly a vote of confidence in the EU.
In another debate, hosted by the Fabian Society, he said he had âmixed feelingsâ on the EU, and at a hustings in Warrington said he would not rule out campaigning to leave.
1 Like