UK Politics Thread (Part 3)

[Noo_Noo]

@Mascot

The financial crash of 2008 was something Labour had to react to. It was a world collapse in the financial sector, and started in America. Not something they caused.

Just to add some uk flavour to this. Who was the hedge fund manager that helped push the uk over the edge at that time?

Rishi Sunak.

[ISMF]

@Lynch04

Is it all down to fear though? I think that’s quite a dismissive statement.
I get that the focus on the recent riots were down to idiots causing trouble, using racism and immigration to justify their cause but to me, seeing it as just that is merely burying your head in the sand.
Over the last decade or so there has been an increase in support for “far right” parties across Europe. In fact, predominantly in the two big EU states Germany and France, to the point that Macron had to tactically ensure his power and has shifted his policies more towards the right. Why is that?

Quite simply there were two main triggers. The first was austerity. The government did a bait and switch blaming failing schools, NHS, housing not on the huge cuts they made…but foreigners.

The second was the Syrian refugee crisis. Where people fleeing a war zones where compared to vermin in the national press. And Farage stood in front of posters akin to those from WW2 with hordes of people.

The EU rules (Tory lies) on bendy banana, kippers, and better economics was largely side dressing to a message of taking back control of our boarders.

The legacy lives on with how Reform/Tories speak about “illegal” boat crossings and the failed Rwanda policy.

That’s not to say there are not issues of immigration (as shown in EU countries) However undoubtedly it was fear that propelled Brexit.

[Lynch04]

@Mascot No we don’t need to do it again. But try and be a bit more positive in life and less melodramatic

[Lynch04]

@Mascot

Young people overwhelmingly voted in favour of remain, so I don’t think you’d find gigs and gyms quite the 50/50 split you think.

So an attempt at humour or just another assumption?

[Lynch04]

We are discussing different points here.

[Rambler]

Benefit claimants should have to look for jobs, says Keir Starmer

Tell them to get on their bikes…

[redalways]

@Redbj

ive seen alot of discussion suggest it is because they are committed to by thier political donors, which makes a more sensical response to me…whether thats a greater evil than the other side of the divides political donors is another matter

What a load of conspiracy theory rubbish.

@Redbj

it alarms me in my personal sphere, that theoretically, when the government becomes so bloated that it only really needs its own employees to vote for it, then we really have a situation where its POSSIBLE that the private sector pay for the excess of the public sector…(which is how i personally feel about the victorian government right now)…

You’re making a very big assumption, that anyone employed by the government will automatically vote for it.

[redalways]

People couldn’t discuss it = silent majority that 100% definitely wants Brexit?

[Lynch04]

@redalways

People couldn’t discuss it = silent majority that 100% definitely wants Brexit?

And there you have it.

[redalways]

@Lynch04

52% of the voting population voted leave

They did not. 51.89% of the people who voted voted leave, against a turnout of 72.21%. That is 37.5% of the voting population voting for it, and with different demographics having different voting patterns.

@Lynch04

which means if your at a gig, on a train, at the gym, etc, so by the laws of average half of that crowd were likely to have voted leave.

Doesn’t work that way. Each of those groups would again have differing demographics and therefore likelihood of voting for/against Brexit.

@Lynch04

Yet, if you were to go off this site or other social platforms you would think that it was only a minority who voted leave.

Oh yes, the persecuted minority right-wing Brexit voters, despite it being demonstrably false. And looking on TAN for representation of the British voting population is a bad idea, in part because it skews international, and is a thoroughly small sample. We are already all biased by the fact that we’re (mostly) Liverpool fans, Liverpool having skewed 58.2% Remain voting.

[redalways]

So not only are you a troll, you’re a troll that can’t read?

It quite clearly says “Conservative, 2010-19”.

I didn’t know COVID started affecting the economy prior to 2020.

[Lynch04]

@redalways

@Lynch04

52% of the voting population voted leave

They did not. 51.89% of the people who voted voted leave, against a turnout of 72.21%. That is 37.5% of the voting population voting for it, and with different demographics having different voting patterns.

@Lynch04

which means if your at a gig, on a train, at the gym, etc, so by the laws of average half of that crowd were likely to have voted leave.

Doesn’t work that way. Each of those groups would again have differing demographics and therefore likelihood of voting for/against Brexit.

@Lynch04

Yet, if you were to go off this site or other social platforms you would think that it was only a minority who voted leave.

Oh yes, the persecuted minority right-wing Brexit voters, despite it being demonstrably false. And looking on TAN for representation of the British voting population is a bad idea, in part because it skews international, and is a thoroughly small sample. We are already all biased by the fact that we’re (mostly) Liverpool fans, Liverpool having skewed 58.2% Remain voting.

So rather than address my points you chose to try and undermine them. You and Mascot have just highlighted my point by responding in the same manner.

[redalways]

What, highlighting how your opinion is factually wrong is bad?

What wonder that you feel like you’re being persecuted…

[Lynch04]

@redalways

What, highlighting how your opinion is factually wrong is bad?

What wonder that you feel like you’re being persecuted…

[WeeJoe]

@Lynch04

The issue I have with Brexit is that we cut our noses off to spite our face in negotiations. In house fighting and playing our cards out in public meant we were always going to get a bad dea

When you say ‘us’ and ‘we’…?

[WeeJoe]

@ISMF

The problem with Starmer is not corruption or his approach to Brexit. It’s that he is not radical enough. Major reform and transformation is needed. It’s akin to the engine is failing on a classic car. It’s on its last legs. But the solutions offered are some new tyres and an air freshener

Nailed it

[tesh]

I often come to this thread and I almost always come away annoyed. There are couple of master baiters that come on here to spread their load of world view and make it sort of entertaining but also depressing in equal measure.

My opinion would be that Brexit was a mistake. I also thought Scottish independence would have been a mistake. In both cases I think I could have voted to leave - if- there was a vision. In both instances there was none beyond master baiting.

[Noo_Noo]

@Lynch04

The sad thing is that the majority on here would class him as ignorant/RW purely because he voted Leave and that is SO wrong

It is wrong, twice. Plenty voted to leave without fully understanding the issues or were taken astray by populist rhetoric. People just didnt know. You cant blame them for that.

Leaving was always going to be damaging. The only question was how much. Putting Johnson in charge made sure we were in proper trouble

[Rambler]

@Mascot

it is simply not true to suggest he didn’t campaign against it. He was very active in the run up to the vote

So is it not somewhat strange that Alan Johnson, who was in charge of the Labour Remain campaign, afterwards stated;

Everyone else needs to make their own assessment as to whether more could have been done to prevent this disastrous result. I will certainly do this, as I hope will the Leader’s Office. At times it felt as if they were working against the rest of the Party and had conflicting objectives.

I was proud to work with some great people who tried their very best to get the result we all wanted. Nobody in the Leadership had the right to undermine their efforts.

[Mascot]

@Rambler

@Mascot

it is simply not true to suggest he didn’t campaign against it. He was very active in the run up to the vote

So is it not somewhat strange that Alan Johnson, who was in charge of the Labour Remain campaign, afterwards stated;

Everyone else needs to make their own assessment as to whether more could have been done to prevent this disastrous result. I will certainly do this, as I hope will the Leader’s Office. At times it felt as if they were working against the rest of the Party and had conflicting objectives.

I was proud to work with some great people who tried their very best to get the result we all wanted. Nobody in the Leadership had the right to undermine their efforts.

I wouldn’t put too much stock in what was said in frustration in the immediate aftermath of the result. When I say Corbyn was active, that’s just factually true. There was a comparison done at the time, and Corbyn did more public campaigning appearances than any other figure in the remain camp by some margin.

I think the issue is the tactics and the message. Corbyn went straight into his comfort zone - rallies to people who already supported him. And he took a more nuanced tone of acknowledging the problems in the EU and the need to reform, which was certainly more realistic that the main campaign’s fingers in ears cheerleading, but didn’t cut through.