UK Politics Thread (Part 3)

[Klopptimist]

Yeah. 1st class too.

[jaffod]

@Mascot

You’re entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. You are not entitled to change the legal definition of Asylum to suit your own argument.

You are entitled to an opinion that we need to look after our own first, and other people are entitled to point out that this is exact phraseology used by racists like Nigel Farage, and question the company you are keeping.

You are entitled to express concern that there are thousands of people lost to the system, and others are entitled to point out that the vast majority of these people are trafficked, and the victims of criminal gangs rather than extensions of them.

Finally, you are entitled to your opinion, but if you don’t want it challenged by people who disagree maybe don’t post it on a fucking discussion board?

Wow, so much I’m doing without knowing it.

First of all I’m not trying to change the legal definition of anything. I’ve made my stance perfectly clear. I am more than happy for qualified people to come in who can start working wherever they are needed.
I am not happy for people to come in who have nothing to offer and are going to be a drain on the country’s finances or who will disappear into the black economy or commit crime.
Right now I don’t care whether they are claiming they are fleeing a war zone or being persecuted, I want it to stop because the country is on it’s arse and can’t accommodate them. YES, 14 years of Tory rule has left services massively underfunded and close to collapse but again, I don’t care who’s fault it is, the fact is we are where we are and blaming the Tory’s isn’t going to magic up the billions of pounds needed to put things right.
You say I sound like ‘racists like Nigel Farage’ for saying I think we should look after our own first and then question the company I keep. So it’s racist to say we should look after our own people first? You’re out of your fucking mind.
The company I keep are people like myself. Honest, hard-working tax-paying citizens. Normal people. And guess what? I’d say 95% hold the same views as me and are sick to fucking death of having labels stuck on them by the likes of you.

[jaffod]

@Mascot

Yeah, maybe try giving your head a fucking wobble and have a think why Asylum Seekers are sent to dirt poor areas and left there indefinitely. Hmmm what could the conservative government have possibly stood to gain from pushing asylum seekers into direct conflict with people who are already below the breadline?

Why, it’s almost as if there is some sort of…I don’t know…agenda to use asylum to distract people from the political decisions that have led to their problems, and provide a convenient scapegoat on their doorstep they can project all their anger onto.

Fucking bore off. You sound like Kier Starmer. We all fucking know the Tory’s underfunded everything for years, banging on about it isn’t going to solve the problem and neither is cramming thousands more people who have fuck all into already massively deprived areas. The where’s and why’s aren’t the issue, what’s done is done and the only way to address it is to STOP FUCKING DOING IT for a few years, improve things as much as possible and THEN start to help people where we can. All we are doing now is compounding the problem and imo we are already beyond the point where it can be put right.

[redalways]

@jaffod

I am not happy for people to come in who have nothing to offer and are going to be a drain on the country’s finances or who will disappear into the black economy or commit crime.

Who are these people?

I genuinely don’t know why you keep obsessing over this supposed group of people, when they don’t exist. Asylum seekers don’t fit this category.

@jaffod

Right now I don’t care whether they are claiming they are fleeing a war zone or being persecuted, I want it to stop because the country is on it’s arse and can’t accommodate them.

Yes it can, because when they are actually processed properly, unless I’m much mistaken, they don’t get housed for long because once they are granted asylum, they get turfed out and are left to fend for themselves.

If you’re a migrant you generally have what’s called “no recourse to public funds”, which is pretty self-explanatory. You don’t get access to welfare nor public housing.

[redalways]

A government can do more than one thing at a time.

There are many more places in the country where asylum seekers can be housed pending decisions, and I would hope the government is already looking into that.

The UK does not get to refuse to accept asylum seekers without breaking international law however, so the only immigrants you can refuse are the very same economically active immigrants who by definition contribute to the economy.

[jaffod]

@Mascot

@jaffod listed a load of areas in Liverpool that are being impacted by asylum seekers being located there.

It made me wonder what it was about the staunchly left-wing, Labour voting heartland than made the Tories go for that.

Liverpool City Council has been under Labour control since 2010. Do the council have any say in where people are placed? Do central government tell them they have to be housed in solely poor areas?
I doubt it myself but expect you to tell me I’m WRONG! pretty soon.

[jaffod]

@redalways

Who are these people?

I genuinely don’t know why you keep obsessing over this supposed group of people, when they don’t exist. Asylum seekers don’t fit this category.

So those coming over from France on small boats enter the labour market as soon as they get here do they? That’s a new one on me.

[jaffod]

@redalways

There are many more places in the country where asylum seekers can be housed pending decisions, and I would hope the government is already looking into that

I hope the government is busy building more houses, more schools, more hospitals, improving public transport, hiring more doctors and nurses, recruiting more police etc while they’re at it.

[redalways]

You and me both, but if you pay attention to the news, they have already started doing many of those things.

[redalways]

@jaffod

So those coming over from France on small boats enter the labour market as soon as they get here do they? That’s a new one on me.

To reiterate what you’ve already been told, they do not disappear unless they’ve been trafficked. And many of them do have things to offer, and one of the biggest complaints is that they’re stuck in limbo, unable to rebuild their lives. Skills that could be used here, with quite a few doctors too.

Process them in a timely manner, and they will be able to get onto the labour market faster. Refuse to do so, and then you have a backlog that starts to build up to the point where you’re spending £8m a day on hotels run by your crony buddies to house them.

But you’ve already been told this.

If you keep ignoring it when people point out the factual inaccuracies underlying the premises of your arguments, then why do you complain that you get talked down to in a condescending manner?

[Dane]

@jaffod

I hope the government is busy building more houses, more schools, more hospitals, improving public transport, hiring more doctors and nurses, recruiting more police etc while they’re at it.

Stop wasting your breath mate.
You’re arguing with the type of people who will console their hungry, homeless, jobless grandkids by telling them its all ok, we did the right thing.

[WeeJoe]

@Dane

You’re arguing with the type of people who will console their hungry, homeless, jobless grandkids by telling them its all ok, we did the right thing.

Yes all good of those things will be due to asylum seekers/refugees (0.6% of the population). Nothing at all to do with Tory austerity/brexit and facilitating the richest 1% in UK to own the same amount of wealth as 80% of the population

[Mascot]

@Dane

Stop wasting your breath mate.
You’re arguing with the type of people who will console their hungry, homeless, jobless grandkids by telling them its all ok, we did the right thing.

I’ll just remind you that the ‘right thing’ me and and few others advocate is

• set up legal routes so people aren’t forced into the hands of people traffickers and forced into the kinds of suffering you can’t imagine.
• Process applications swiftly, and allow those meeting the criteria to stay, work and contribute to society.
• Deport those that don’t.

What a bunch of bleeding heart liberal nutters we are, proposing something that is both humane, and makes complete economic sense.

[Dane]

@Mascot

@Dane

Stop wasting your breath mate.
You’re arguing with the type of people who will console their hungry, homeless, jobless grandkids by telling them its all ok, we did the right thing.

I’ll just remind you that the ‘right thing’ me and and few others advocate is

• set up legal routes so people aren’t forced into the hands of people traffickers and forced into the kinds of suffering you can’t imagine.
• Process applications swiftly, and allow those meeting the criteria to stay, work and contribute to society.
• Deport those that don’t.

What a bunch of bleeding heart liberal nutters we are, proposing something that is both humane, and makes complete economic sense.

• set up legal routes so people aren’t forced into the hands of people traffickers and forced into the kinds of suffering you can’t imagine.
• Process applications swiftly, and allow those meeting the criteria to stay, work and contribute to society.
• Deport those that don’t.

These are exactly the right things that @jaffod (and me) have alluded to being perfectly ok, yet sarcastic responses and veiled insinuations of racism have followed

[Mascot]

@jaffod

So those coming over from France on small boats enter the labour market as soon as they get here do they? That’s a new one on me.

No they don’t enter they job market. They are unable to do that, as it’s been government policy to place them in ‘temporary’ accommodation, deny them the ability to contribute anything to society, and hold them in an endless queue awaiting processing, while encouraging people like you to blame them for everything that is shit about their life.

[jaffod]

@redalways

Process them in a timely manner, and they will be able to get onto the labour market faster. Refuse to do so, and then you have a backlog that starts to build up to the point where you’re spending £8m a day on hotels run by your crony buddies to house them.

But you’ve already been told this.

Erm, you’ve just told me what I’ve been saying all along. I already know it’s costing £8 million a day to house them etc. That’s my fucking point.
I’m not arsed if it’s the Tory’s fault or if it’s been a coalition of Timmy fucking Mallett and Mr Blobby, that’s the situation.
Until the backlog is cleared it’s absolute lunacy to accept any more.

[Mascot]

@Dane

These are exactly the right things that @jaffod (and me) have alluded to being perfectly ok, yet sarcastic responses and veiled insinuations of racism have followed

To be fair I’ve only made thinly veiled accusations of racism at the thinly veiled racism.

[jaffod]

@Dane

Stop wasting your breath mate.
You’re arguing with the type of people who will console their hungry, homeless, jobless grandkids by telling them its all ok, we did the right thing

Yeah, I’m looking forward to all the cry-arsing from the hand-wringers on Thursday after the budget.

[redalways]

@jaffod

Erm, you’ve just told me what I’ve been saying all along.

@jaffod

I am not happy for people to come in who have nothing to offer and are going to be a drain on the country’s finances or who will disappear into the black economy or commit crime.
Right now I don’t care whether they are claiming they are fleeing a war zone or being persecuted, I want it to stop because the country is on it’s arse and can’t accommodate them. YES, 14 years of Tory rule has left services massively underfunded and close to collapse but again, I don’t care who’s fault it is, the fact is we are where we are and blaming the Tory’s isn’t going to magic up the billions of pounds needed to put things right.

None of this says what claim you were saying.

@jaffod

Until the backlog is cleared it’s absolute lunacy to accept any more.

Refusing to accept asylum seekers would require withdrawal from the 1951 Refugee Convention.

[Dane]

@Mascot

@Dane

These are exactly the right things that @jaffod (and me) have alluded to being perfectly ok, yet sarcastic responses and veiled insinuations of racism have followed

To be fair I’ve only made thinly veiled accusations of racism at what I’ve perceived to be thinly veiled racism, even though it wasn’t.

Ok

If you genuinely thought that racist comments were being made (however thinly veiled), and your fellow mods wouldn’t laugh you out of your secret room for highlighting them, warnings would have been issued, no?