Mate, where have I stated Brexit has been a success? Please, quote me. If you can fair enough. So that pretty much dismisses most of this statement.
Can you please provide facts to your £100bn a year claim. Thanks.
But do you see the difference in your accusation? Yes, no one knows every thing. I respect the fact that you acknowledge this and have tried to understand, educate yourself in this area. However, you follow this up by assuming people who voted leave read a story on Google and formed their opinion from this. You are forming your argument on the fact that you have listened to experts, enough to form an educated opinion but then dismiss people opposing your view as not going to the same lengths as you to form an opinion, making there mind up on some misgivings from a breakfast menu at Wetherspoons.
Do you not see where I am coming from? I am not saying you or are wrong or right but I am willing to give you a level playing field in your right to form an opinion. I am not shooting your opinion down, dismissing it, so why do you?
You consistently move the goal posts. Fail to respond directly to my points and then have the audacity to ask me to demonstrate where things have occurred so you can investigate the claims. Technically, my points regarding the Remain statements are on the basis they have not occurred, so the onus is on you to prove they have occurred.
For simplicity, shall we deal with one issue at a time?
Let’s start with an easy one. From the Left Wing Guardian, a statement made by George Osbourne.
“In the long term, the country and the people in the country are going to be poorer. That affects the value of people’s homes and the Treasury analysis shows that there would be a hit to the value of people’s homes by at least 10% and up to 18%.”
So, what is the time frame of any said statement. Who knows maybe the Red Bus may not be a lie…I joke.
Housing market crash came from the remain campaign. House prices falling by 10% on a vote to leave, 18% in the worst case scenario.
It maybe a topic all on its own but you can’t pick and choose.
Regarding jobs, you are not comparing figures to the actual statement. The HM Treasury stated the impact of leaving the EU would be an increase in unemployment by 500,000.
Unemployment figures 2016 - 1.62m
Unemployment figures 2024 - 1.49m
There was also scaremongering about London losing its No.1 status in the EU in regard to the Financial sector, Banks leaving London, etc. Currently, London is ranked 2nd in the world behind New York.
Because Leave couldn’t say what Leave meant, because as mentioned before, it was not Party led and there was no mandate. The Government, Cameron and Osbourne were pro-remain.
Do you know what a lot of people fail to grasp? It is that the Tory leadership (PM and Chancellor) were pro remain, yet the leader of the opposition (Labour) was a Euro Sceptic.
Am I? What did you vote on in the referendum? What was the specific question of the referendum?
So, what are you expecting here, people who campaigned for Remain to kowtow to all Brexiteers?
Talk about irony. The only views which someone has to align with mine to not be considered ignorant is that they would agree on intellectual humility being important. I think there are many idiots out there whose views agree with me by pure coincidence, not because they came to it by a rigorous reasoning process. If you’re laughing off the idea of electoral manipulation despite the evidence to the contrary, then I think it says a lot, don’t you think?
It’s funny how right wing propaganda works, and is just another indication that fighting false information from the right, whether in the UK or US, is a futile exercise. There is no reasoning with these people. They will take the word of anyone that helps continue to prop up their existing prejudices.
Hamoud Al-Soaimi was a minor at the time of the raping. For the incidents occurring in 2018-19 that he’s charged for, if he was 21 at the time of his sentencing in march 2024, I guess that would make him 16 or 17yo at the time? (EDIT: 15yo or 16 yo at the time) He received a two year prison sentence suspended for two years, is subject to a 10 year sexual harm prevention order, a lifetime restraining order and 10 years on the sexual offenders register.
3 other (older) offenders part of those same gang rapes, received 18, 15, and 5 1/2 year prison sentences respectively. In my opinion those sentences are still too low given they’ve destroyed these women’s lives. And I also think there should be harsher punishments of minors. Still Sean Hogg is another man who also received community service for a rape as a minor, which I note is not the example they chose to use in this comparison: too white; Not immigrant-y enough.
Samuel Melia, the guy in the middle photo, was releasing some pretty horrendous anti-Semitic and pro-Nazi messages and he has received the sentence he deserved. Just like the racist in the first photo.
This is why it’s always best to question everything put on here that comes from social media, but particularly if it’s a far right wing piece as it will often come unfiltered directly from a feed that spreads hatred.
I was looking for a source of the claims, with the proof that they were part of the Remain campaign as opposed to an academic or expert saying that it would have a particular effect on their field of expertise. As an example, your Osborne claim. That’s something I can work with.
Essentially, it’s just like disinflation. It’s not that the prices went down, but the prices didn’t go up as much as they would have otherwise.
Looking at a Knight Frank analysis, they supply a useful graph as below (note that these are in terms of year-on-year percentage changes, so anything above the 2nd horizontal gridline on the graph is growth. You can see the trend in house prices decline until 2021, when COVID hit, and then prices started rocketing again.
Remember what else happened during COVID? Yes, not only was there a sudden increase in people looking to move post-lockdown, there was also the stamp duty holiday.
Between then however, it’s undeniable that since the Brexit referendum, prices have been on a different trajectory compared to before.
I believe there was another claim about mortgage rates which is more spurious:
(Chart title: “Average interest rates for mortgages in the United Kingdom (UK) from March 2000 to September 2024, by type of mortgage” if you want to look it up because if you go via the URL itself, it’s paywalled, but if you click through via Google you can access it)
In a very real sense, a 10% fall in house prices did materialise, just not for British people who might actually have benefited to “get onto the housing ladder”. It materialised for overseas investors, and from my most detested anecdata, I know that there were some new-build developments in London which were more heavily marketed towards overseas investors, to the point where the developers barely maintained a presence in London, while marketing it heavily in Hong Kong.
As a bonus by the way from my Googling about the post-Brexit currency movements:
I think if you find yourself agreeing with the resident troll you might want to reconsider your point.
I think many members of the general public are idiots, often who revel in their ignorance, but not because they “share my politics” whatever that means (I choose it to mean sharing my general political preferences). It also often is despite sharing these views, because they could have come to these views by pure coincidence.
Do they? I have seen no shortage of repetition that Corbyn is a Brexiteer. It was one of the things I disliked the most about him, because he arrived at that view not through the evidence, but picked the evidence to support his view.
It’s worth pointing out that the methodology for calculating employment changed around 2022 so you can’t directly compare the figures.
However, there are now around another 800,000 extra people in long term sickness over that time. Whether those people would be in employment if they hadn’t been invalided is another question.
