UK Politics Thread (Part 4)

Brazil did it.

I don’t have an answer for this, but I think it starts with sincerity. Streeting comes across (but perhaps I have prior bias in this regard) as someone trying to suck up to that man-child, like Lindner of the FDP.

3 Likes

So Labour should ban Twitter?

Would fucking love to see it, but realistically it would end their government within six months.

No, it’s called developing principles and sticking to them.

2 Likes

I mean lots of us were pointing out who Starmer and co were before the election and got shouted down. They weren’t hiding who they are but people were deluded in thinking they’d somehow swing left

2 Likes

I still don’t understand what people expect him to be able to do.

He has no moves, and the kind of radical change that we need - even if he were in favour of it - would be wildly unpopular with the public.

2 Likes

Seems to be common consensus that they’re only in because the Tories had to go.
Unless there’s a monumental change in public perception of Starmer and his more senior ministers, they’re gone in 2029.

I’m still convinced he won’t be leading them into the next election

Actually the current government should just take Musk on a debate since he likes to talk. Challenge face to face, and take each other down point by point. Or else he remains to have the right to talk whatever shit he wants and of course the UK political system doesn’t have to give a shit about what he says.

Why do I not get to “do that shit”? What shit are you referring to? I made a tongue in cheek comment, highlighting the irony in your statement and you get all agitated and defensive, talk about over reacting.

Out of interest what states are you referring to?

How are the EU’s “long held plans cooperate on tax avoidance” going? Brexit was 8 years ago, so why are the Netherlands, Switzerland, Ireland and LUXEMBOURG - all part of the EU - still big Tax Havens?

Hasn’t had a trade deal with the US since year dot? Are you referring to after Independence, as part of the EU? Anyhow, it doesn’t matter.
Why do you suggest it is a RW fascination to have a trade deal with the US? Isn’t it just better for commerce?
Again, you are assuming that the US/Trump would request supply to the NHS as part of any agreement and even if they were that the Government would entertain it. You can’t just view something on your preconceptions.
What if Labour spoke to the US/Trump and actually got us a good trade arrangement? Oh, of course, you think it is impossible so you didn’t bother :man_shrugging:t3:.

How did you get on?

So why is he PM? People expect him and his party to have some idea of what to do.

For fucks sake, in your posts you have made it clear that the Tories made a load of moves that were wildly unpopular with the public, instigated the Brexit vote and then mismanaged the whole exit process. Had May, Boris, Truss and Sunak as leaders who are all inept and corrupt and now you have a Labour leader who you want to defend because he is doing nothing??

I already know that you are going to downplay my post, deflect it in some way but here goes.

Starmer, is the leader of the Labour Party, the PM and therefore leader of the Country. Labour were politically savvy enough to get into power, then they need to be politically savvy to stay in power and If they are not doing this then you and fellow Labour voters need to tell them, because as sure as hell the other parties will do.
So, next election Tories win by a landslide, Starmer comes out and echoes your words… I don’t understand what the people expected me to do, I didn’t have any moves and the “Change”, the pledge which saw me get Elected, was too radical for me to pursue.
You wouldn’t be so accepting if it was a Tory Government.

I believe that the majority of the public are aware that Labour have inherited a shit show in terms of public finances, a result of 25 years of unforeseen issues and bad decisions and that things are more than likely going to get worse before better.
People may not be happy with change, however, they are more than likely to accept it if there is a plan and can be sold a vision.

This is not an attack on Labour, as I want them to be successful. I really couldn’t care which Party was in power or who was the PM as long as their policies benefited the Country and its people. However at the moment, the Government - who are 7 months in - are still to make any real commitment regarding their identity or direction.
They need to make tough/educated decisions - however unpopular - now, before another term passes and we are no further forward. Just making excuses and blaming others.

2 Likes

It’s looking more and more likely to me too. He’s someone who perhaps Labour needed to stabilise the party and would actually make a decent Prime Minister, if not for the gaping void which is a vision for the country.

He has a choice now, he can either seize his moment and start making actual progress towards transforming the country, or become Olaf Scholz (for lack of a better comparison that springs to mind immediately) and just ultimately cede ground constantly until no one knows what the point of him is.

For me it wasn’t delusion, just perhaps being unwilling to believe that surely they couldn’t be so blind as to see that it was the pragmatic thing to do.

I’ve seen a lot of arguments that his doom and gloom rhetoric risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. While the Autumn Budget was perhaps a little more radical than I expected, they seem too reticent to do more of that and less tinkering around the edges.

They need to recognise at some point, that in many ways, the vote against the Tories wasn’t just against the corruption and malfeasance, but the way in which the country, no matter which part of the political spectrum you reside on, has really just gone backwards in so many ways since the mid-2000s. People want change, and if they don’t get it from this government, then no one should be surprised if Reform see a massive upswing in popularity.

It’s what centre-(left/right) parties don’t seem to get, it seems.

3 Likes

I really am not trying to sound condescending here, so my apologies if that is how it comes across. But, I feel like you are finally getting it, that by the centre being ignorant, dismissing the far right/left we are sleep walking into their hands.

No. I just completely disagree that it means pandering to their talking points.

The far-right are not offering anything but lies.

They tap into valid emotions about people feeling left behind, the general feeling of decay in public services and living standards, but what they propose doesn’t solve the problem and only serves to exacerbate it. But it doesn’t matter, because the donors and enablers to these parties get to profit off it.

EDIT: And if your thesis is right, then surely all the pandering we’ve seen these “mainstream” parties do to the far-right’s talking points, including fuel all the talk about immigration, should have seen an increase in support for them? My arse. why vote for far-right lite when you can just get full-fat far-right? That’s why the AfD is gaining momentum. That’s why you see Reform surge ahead at the cost of the Conservatives. That’s why Les Republicains have all but disappeared while NR is leading.

3 Likes

Switzerland part of the EU?

3 Likes

In process:

5 Likes

A couple of months a go, I raised the issue with you, in a direct response to one of your posts about the rise of the Far Right across Europe. You dismissed it on the back of sensationalist stories from the media. But now you realise that the Far Right are gaining momentum across Europe.
Not everyone turning to these parties are Far Right leaning or racist but they feel like the Government is not addressing their concerns.
This is where the Centre are going to come unstuck.

:yawning_face: sorry, I forgot there would be someone more interested in trying pick me up on technicalities than the actual point of concern. Okay, let’s remove Switzerland from the equation, so what’s your point?

Ah yes, you mean this post: UK Politics Thread (Part 3) - #9854 by redalways which you quoted as a reply to me suggesting that I was dismissing the rise of the far-right, ignoring what my post actually said.

And now you’re back to repeat that once again? Sounds remarkably like what I was criticising.

Here’s a recap of what I actually said (for the avoidance of doubt, the original post had no formatting, the formatting is added for emphasis as an effort to halt this continued misrepresentation):

Yes, that is dismissing the rise of the far-right indeed.

Not to mention, that exact post is literally describing what you just replied to me about.

Lies. Literal lies. Like how much clearer do you want it made to you?

2 Likes

In process, so 8 years and counting….

Also from the Guardian

“The EU and UK were among the first wave adopting the changes at the start of this year, but the US and China have yet to implement them.”

So surely this contradicts Mascots statement about Brexit being sought by the super rich to avoid Tax?

Not sure how it’s a contradiction, given that “being sought” and achieving are two separate issues. Not to mention, that was 5 Conservative Prime Ministers ago.

1 Like