UK Politics Thread (Part 4)

[SBYM]

It is playing out in this very thread.

[Limiescouse]

@Mascot

So yes Trump is most definitely a far right politician. We need to frame him as this and not normalise his politics.

I genuinely don’t even understand the contention. Their arguments against the labelling are so unserious that I feel insane even starting to put an argument together.

It feels like supporters of his accept that label comes with moral liabilities and rather than try to argue the case on the morals, or just accept the moral position they are taking, they fall into arguing black is white - that America First, an overtly nativist sentiment and a label taken from a 30s era overtly pro Nazi movement, that has promised mass deportations to the cheers of its supporters, that has threatened denaturalization of those deemed unamerican, that has already used threats of violence and actual real violence to advance their agenda…that this is not a far right movement.

[Iftikhar]

Tulip Siddiq was given London flat by developer with links to ousted...

[Klopptimist]

Some would say they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Quicker.

[Mascot]

@Limiescouse

There is no value in debating someone who has no interest in honest discourse. Even the idea that the public will be able to see the charlatan’s pants being pulled down is folly because if the public was able to identify bullshit for being bullshit there wouldnt need to be a debate.

The whole “debate me, bro” idea is one of the worst trends that has come out of the online hetrodox truth speaking content creator sector because by its very existence it elevates the ideas of dipshits into something that justify being taken seriously.

There was a quote attributed to Robert May (Lord May) who was president of the Royal Society, who would apparently respond to requests from Creationists to debate him by saying ‘I know that would look really good on your CV, however it would not look very good on mine’.

[Limiescouse]

This is one of thought leaders of the so called “intellectual Darkweb” ( fucking dweebs) that is constantly being put forward as a fighter in the “debate me, bro” wars.

[redalways]

[Noo_Noo]

Is gravity manipulation avaliable when you step on the scales?

[SBYM]

Yes.

The unit of measurement is chocolate digestives.

[Maria]

Haggis_UK 🇬🇧 🇪🇺

Farage has just been dumped publicly

[Lynch04]

@Mascot

I think you grossly underestimate how fucked the country is. Not just in terms of 14 years of policy failures from the Tories, but just in terms of the levels of political ignorance that makes any kind of radical political thinking near impossible.

You said yourself that Labour are seven months in. And yet you seem to think that they should have fixed everything already. In that respect you are a bit like a lot of the public who are now getting frustrated that a Prime Minister who inherited probably the worst economic circumstances in living memory, in the most volatile political times, and with very little scope to intervene through the tax system or through borrowing, hasn’t put everything right again.

No, I don’t grossly underestimate how fucked the country is and is it really the worst economic circumstances in living memory?

What is this political ignorance you refer to? Can you elaborate please?

You’re doing exactly what I referred to in my post, making excuses. Blaming it on the situation they inherited. Saying they can’t do anything, have no moves. Well guess what that is not good enough. I don’t expect any government to turn round the Countries fortunes in 7 months, but if you read my post I said that they still don’t have any identity/clear direction.
Can you please tell me what their policies are, what their direction is?

To conclude on this point, I don’t expect Labour to have solved the whole of the countries issues in 7 months and I am not getting frustrated with them.
What I am frustrated with, is people like yourself already making excuses in expectation for their failure.
Labour/Starmer had some kind of idea that the Countries finances were in the shit - I accept maybe not the full picture - and so were aware that they were inheriting a tough scenario. They chose to run for Government, told us they were going to turn around the Countries fortunes and so therefore people have a right to question them.
Comments like (note, I am not quoting you directly here) ‘they are not politically savvy’, ‘what do you expect them to do’, ‘they have no moves’ and ‘the radical moves they want to make would prove unpopular’ is all very defeatist.

@Mascot

Ultimately, as long as we’re outside the EU we’re going to struggle. That’s the big elephant in the room and the massive drain on the economy.

You’re like a broken record, and again being defeatist. The UK will never be the same out of the EU, blah blah blah. The big elephant in the room is how are the Countries in the EU faring economically? They called all the shots, we mismanaged the exit and yet they are arguably no better off than us.

UK economy to grow faster than Japan, Italy and Germany this year, says OECD

What economists say about the UK’s outlook for 2025

Infact, it could be argued that the last quarters negative figure was a result of Rachel Reeves budget.

Please note, I am not having a dig here, she had to make some tough decisions. Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to take two steps forward, it will take time for these decisions to show fruition.

What I am trying to say is that you can’t keep making excuses for everything! Yes the UK maybe in a better position if it was part of the EU but at the same time it could also be in a worse position.
Labour may of handled Brexit and Covid better, but again they may not have. We will never know and whoever claims to know is a liar.
We can only deal with the present, which is a Labour government overseeing a very shitty situation and at a time where the world as a whole is economically unstable. As you touched upon in another of your posts, we need strong leadership, strong leadership is about being confident in making moves, radical decisions and most importantly having a plan and selling it to us. Until this happens people are only going to become more critical and like it or not, it is not purely down to the Right Wing media.

[Lynch04]

@Noo_Noo

True and we are lucky that political parties haven’t aligned. Biden said no deal while Brexit and Northern Ireland were a mess (still is).

Now a labour government with a far right US government. Its not for sale.

But should we end up with an extended Trump government in the US and Labour gone, it will be on the table.

In the eyes of the political right the NHS is a socialist construct that they dont want to pay for. All those poor unhealthy grunts and pensioners needing treatment all the time. We are not paying for someone else’s healthcare. Plus i’m guessing US pharma has long been frustrated that the NHS’s protected status on drug purchases hitting their profit margin.

So I’m not ignoring anything. Its good fortune thus far.

Ok. Let’s agree to disagree.

[Lynch04]

@redalways

Yes, famously you need to be Nazi or the second coming of Hitler in order to be far right.

And that everyone voted for Trump to own the libs because they called him fascist.

Sorry, I thought nowadays you just had to disagree with anyone liberal to be defined as Far Right…

[Lynch04]

@Arminius

@Lynch04

But yeah, you keep holding onto that fact and ignore the whole process of negotiating and the UK having a say in the matter.

What makes you think he has changed his mind in the least? He has nominated Jameson Greer, Lighthizer’s past CoS and a protege of Navarro. Navarro penned the Project 2025 discussion of trade deals, which can be found here:

Can you please refer me to the part of the Project 2025 discussion you want me to read please. I can’t see anything about the NHS.

I am not saying he has changed his mind. But the assumption @Noo_Noo was making is that he was still going to use this as part of negotiations when there is no evidence to suggest this. Trade deals involve both parties to come to an agreement, so we are not obliged to accept what Trump wants.
Hows that wall going that Trump said he was going to build and forward an invoice for….

[Arminius]

Read the Cato Institute piece, or at least the executive summary. The NHS is not mentioned, because the Cato Institute is speaking to an American audience, most of whom have no idea of what the NHS is. The fact that medicine is not really a ‘business sector’ in the British mind is not really relevant.

Here is a quote from the executive summary:

As for other services areas, health services are an area where both sides would benefit from openness to foreign competition, although we recognize any changes to existing regulations will be extremely controversial. Perhaps, then, for other areas the initial focus should be on other fields such as education or legal services, where negotiators can test the waters and see what is possible. That said, we would envisage a swift, time-tabled implementation of recognition across all areas within 5 years.

Lighthizer has discussed the same in the context of allowing American competition in the Canadian ‘health care market’.

[Lynch04]

Will have a look later

[cynicaloldgit]

@Arminius

where negotiators can test the waters and see what is possible.

Which translates as “where shysters can see where they can make a quick buck”.

[Magnus]

Lovely !

They should ask that authoritarian racist from Inspector Morse. The blonde guy I used to think was a serious man before i discovered his twitter account. The Reclaim something guy. Could merge with Reform something and become Reclaim and Reform.

[Bekloppt]

‘Reclaim Racism’ has a catchy ring to it.

[redalways]

See, this is where you’re really losing the benefit of the doubt I’ve given you. You say you’re neither left nor right, but you quite clearly use the language, the memes, the themes of the right-wing. Either you’re being deliberately disingenuous, or you’re stuck in a media bubble you’re completely unaware of (and perhaps refuse to acknowledge).