UK Politics Thread (Part 4)

The key is returning to economic growth. The situation reminds me of my time in Ottawa with the early Chretien Liberals after the 1993 election, when we happily flooded into the ministerial offices intent on turning on the spending taps and making the country a better place the very next day. Once we looked at the books, there was a ‘that cannot be right, holy fuck’ moment, and it gradually became clear that in fact we were there to administer the most draconian austerity program the country had ever seen. For two years, people around Finance and some of PMO were despised, even and especially by other Liberals who saw it all as a betrayal. It was not until year 3 that the Government could actually commit resources to other priorities, but we were in surplus by the next election.

The comparison only goes so far though, and the differences are worth thinking about.

  1. Our Tories were not your Tories. Partisans will tell you otherwise, but when the Tories came to power in 1984, the books were a mess. Canada was spending more on programs than it was collecting in taxes, so we were borrowing to pay interest and then some. By 1993, they had at least produced a surplus against program spending, though we were still borrowing to pay interest. By contrast, your Tories have made the situation worse year over year for five years…and then the pandemic hit.

  2. Even though we are all of course prescient geniuses who knew the timing would work out perfectly…we were lucky. The 90s turnaround simply would not have happened without a massive increase in trade with the US (courtesy of the Tories we all hated, natch), and that was due in large measure to very favourable macroeconomic conditions there. We improved our trading relationship with our largest trading partner, which happened to hit a sustained boom right about then. By contrast, the UK (/checks notes) incinerated exactly the kind of open trading relationship that was critical with (/checks notes again) your largest trading partner, which is currently facing macroeconomic challenges.

  3. As fucked as we were in 1993, we actually had more wiggle room than the UK right now. Tory cuts to spending were not as deep as we all complained they were ( so we cut 'em), and there was about 5% less of the economy already in government hands. The fact that the UK now has about 50% of the economy in government hands yet so many services now seem to be at barebones levels is staggering. From the top level of the government down, it has to produce despair. If you take more resources from the private sector, you squeeze growth. If you take resources from the public sector, well, another hospital ER has a leaky roof.

So, given that it took from 1994 (1993 was the year given over to the denial-anger-bargaining-depression cycle), and 1996 was the first year where there was anything but cuts - all in an environment that was more favourable in hindsight than it felt at the time - I think Starmer’s Labour will do very well to actually see any ability to do what they want in this election cycle. There is a very good chance they will end up doing all the hard and necessary work, and then get punished for it. Some new spendthrift from the right schools will come in for the Tories, and get to look brilliant for another cycle before the shine wears off.

That is a damned depressing place for a government to be - I could only hack it until early 1996.

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Many thanks, indeed. Hugely appreciate such a detailed response.

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Even if the message is, as you say, rather depressing!!

It was borderline therapeutic, I have been thinking a lot in the past few days about the situation we (Canada, Europe, the West) find ourselves in now.

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The Daily Fail actually tried to spin this as woese than Truss because the overall borrowing is higher.

This is the graph they showed. Guess where Truss was in charge.

1000003138

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Another rough day in the bond market, Reeves is running out of room headed toward the March update. Labour are stuck between fiscal rules (if they chuck those, the bond market will go haywire), the commitment not to increase taxes, and the commitment not to cut spending.

They need growth badly.

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and in other notes, Truss is upset with Starmer for saying that she did what she did

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I would really like to see this carry on and see where it goes.

Might be a fun distraction from all the other crap.

Stop saying I did the thing that I did!

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I think we badly need growth :rofl:

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Tense morning around the government I would guess, looks like the yield has hit a little bit of a plateau this afternoon. I saw some speculation that spending cuts might be required to start bringing it down. Gut check time.

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Watching the lunchtime news, my jaw just literally dropped.
Why is it even up for debate who is responsible for toilet training a kid?
The world has gone fucking mad

I’ve just checked the BBC, the Guardian and the Times, and there is nothing that refers to anything like this.

Can you point to the story, or is this going to be another @Dane special, where a story you’ve misunderstood or isn’t even true, is a cue for you to launch another diatribe about how the world has gone mad?

It was on the ITV lunchtime news.
Just because you didn’t see it doesnt mean it wasn’t on.

Careful you don’t hurt yourself getting off your fucking high horse.

Guardian you say?

I’ve seen snippets of pre schools phoning parents to come in and change nappies because staff are (I’m guessing) not permitted to do so.

Pretty easy to join the dots as to why this situation has arisen.

Not sure if its the same story

Edit beat me to it.

‘one in four children in England and Wales were not toilet trained’

dafuq !

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I’m not saying you didn’t see a story on the news. But you have a track record of turning stuff like this into some kind of sub-Clarkson ‘you couldn’t make it up’ thing. I know you were probably desperate to get to the bit where you say ‘the world has gone mad’ but it would have probably been helpful to provide a link or at least some context.

Probably the difference between us, is that you see shit parents and I see a collapse in the kind of early years social structures that would have addressed this problem.

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Probably best to avoid talking about track records :roll_eyes:

Let’s leave it then, and I’ll look forwards to your next post about the world going mad based on something you’ve seen on the news that you can’t be bothered describing for us.