Imagine being dumb enough to think that because WWII took place no-one talks about WWI
Oh thatâs a fantastic argument. Letâs fly them in by the plane-load (if theyâre not already) because everyone will be dead soon.
And just to be clear, for the fucking billionth time, I have no problem at all with immigration in the right areas and the right numbers.
And just to be clear for the fucking billionth time nobody here is advocating for unchecked immigration.
Yet again you bring something into the discussion, and then act affronted when others refer to it. You mentioned your grandkids wondering what the fuck we were thinking letting all these immigrants in (which isnât what we are doing, but donât let that stop you). Iâm suggesting your grandkids are going to be more preoccupied with working out what the fuck they are to survive, rather than being cross that Grandad Jaffod didnât burn down a migrant hotel when he had the chance.
By the way, did you vote for Brexit?
No, not affronted at all. What I do find funny is how everything goes under the same umbrella for you. An example-
Very, very few people have a problem with immigration. Everyone knows there are benefits if itâs done properly. So why not stop muddying the waters? Try separating what people are happy with from what concerns them?
I never said we were letting âall these immigrants inâ but donât let that stop you. But we are letting too many in. Maybe you should leave your village more. Go and visit some of our major cities. You could start in Liverpool. Go and take a walk around Wavertree, Kensington, Anfield, Tuebrook, Walton, Bootle and others that are being flooded. Go and look at the figures for the areas in the UK where the highest numbers are located. Liverpool is right up there, already dirt-poor areas of the city having thousands of migrants foisted upon them (yes, foisted). These areas are unrecognisable from what they were even 10 years ago. All without consultation, all without consent.
Fuck me, youâre beyond help. Because thatâs what Iâve been advocating isnât it, burning down migrant hotels?
No, I didnât. I saw it as a choice between a shit sandwich and a bowl of dog puke. So I didnât bother.
I know where youâre going on this one too. The old âitâs because of Brexit there are so many small boatsâ argument. Well Iâm not buying that one either. I donât accept we should accommodate tens of thousands of migrants coming over in dingyâs, without official documentation, from another perfectly safe EU country simply because we left the EU.
That would have sufficed
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You talked about your grandkids wondering why we let this happen.
So, what would you advocate doing that we arenât doing already?
[quote=âjaffod, post:1616, topic:5783, full:trueâ] The old âitâs because of Brexit there are so many small boatsâ argument. Well Iâm not buying that one either. I donât accept we should accommodate tens of thousands of migrants coming over in dingyâs, without official documentation, from another perfectly safe EU country simply because we left the EU.
[/quote]
You can have whatever opinion you want. It doesnât change the facts of the matter.
When we were in the EU, we were part of a returns agreement that meant we could return irregular entrants to the first safe country they entered. Now there is absolutely fuck all we can do. Farage can rant all he likes about sending them back to France, but he canât.
We wanted to go it on our own. This is what it looks like in reality.
Iâm being more combative than I should be, for which I apologise. All I want here is a bit of realism in this debate. Everyone has an opinion on what we should do about immigration, and it more often than not rooted in delusional fantasy.
Millions of people voted for Brexit so we could could control our borders, without understanding the complex web of treaties on immigration that existed because we were part of the EU, and inadvertently made the situation much, much worse.
And there is climate change, which isnât changing the subject - there is a huge intersection between the two issues, because the movement of people that is only just starting to happen now because of climate breakdown is going to make a couple of hundred people a week arrive on dinghies look like a picnic. People have no idea whatâs coming. Anyone concerned like Jaffod is about being swamped with people and our culture changing should be fighting tooth and nail for climate change policies.
Just a question. Are these all from dinghy crossings or regular, legal immigration? There seems to be confusion on this, where the dinghy crossings are being blamed for what you see.
Worth noting that, regular immigration was also sky high under the last government. It has come down now.
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Itâs probably more about how they behave and try to integrate into our culture than how they got here.
Also about where the boat crossers are accommodated and in what numbers.
I posted some figures from AI about sexual crime data in London, its fucking scary
I can understand that given weâve been having the same argument regarding English moving into parts of Wales..
Whatever I say youâll dredge up some archaic, out-dated, not-fit-for-purpose law/regulation that was written 80 years ago and doesnât come close to addressing the problems we have today.
So Iâd make it clear there is fuck all here for them. You come here without a passport/documentation that proves who you are then there is zero chance you are granted asylum. No exceptions. Youâre gone.Even if you have proof of who you are you need a cast-iron reason as to why you should be allowed to remain.
When youâre here you live in basic accomodation in the middle of nowhere. You are given 3 meals a day to cover your nutritional needs and fuck all else. You donât get ciggies. You donât get pocket money. You donât get tax-payer funded trips to the cinema, driving lessons, free medical treatment, mobile phones. You donât sit around in public spaces all day.
And at the end of the day, unless you can convince the gullible you have a valid reason to be here, you get deported with fuck all. No appeal system. Thatâs the deal, like it or lump it.
Labour brought in this legislation a year ago I believe. There is an appeals process though.
With regards to what asylum seekers get, they receive basic housing (a room), ÂŁ49 a week, access to the NHS and education for kids aged 5 to 16.
Who knows? I donât ask them. I donât really care, itâs made my home city unrecogniseable from what it was in the past and nobody was consulted on it or given a vote.
Thereâs always been a Chinese community in Liverpool. A black community. Italians and Irish. This is something else and it wont end well.
Well, colour me surprised.
Well thatâs 49 quid a week more than I got when I lost my job having payed into the system for over 40 years. I was entitled to fuck all.
You donât get this anyway. Where the fuck are you reading this shit? I thought the mobile phones thing had been debunked ages ago. Driving lessons?
This, in a nutshell, is the problem whole issue with the immigration debate. People are basing their opinions, and therefore their voting intentions, on information that is transparently bullshit.
People fleeing humanitarian crises more often donât have documentation.
Unemployment benefit is currently ÂŁ95 a week, and you can claim it for six months after becoming unemployed. You wouldnât get it if youâd been sacked, or you chose to leave your job.
Youâre right to an extent. A lot is provided by charities, but whatâs the difference? There are schemes and funds available to help refugees learn to drive once they have right to remain. Not sure what help there is available to UK born citizens, if there is any.
That old chestnut. Maybe they base their opinions more on what they see with their own eyes?
Yes, I dropped my passport in the water as I was fleeing war-torn France. By the way, have you any idea how large Africa is? Itâs about 125 times bigger than the UK. Are there no countries on the African continent that arenât at war or suffering from massive climate change? I think there probably are.
Well I didnât get sacked and I didnât choose to leave my job, and I was entitled to fuck all.
Let me enlighten you.
I was made redundant when the company I worked for went down the pan. Communisis in Speke, and other sites around the country.
I put my claim in for contribution-based JSA happy in the knowledge Iâd contributed for over 43 years.
Imagine my shock when they wrote back telling me the 2 small company pensions I was in receipt of disqualified me from receiving contribution-based JSA?
Those 2 pensions amounted to ÂŁ5887 a year after tax, because yes!, I was paying tax on them as well as paying tax on my wages.
Nothing else was taken into consideration. As far as they were concerned I had to live on about ÂŁ112 a week. Food, bills, petrol, gas, electricity, the fucking lot. My wife had not long lost her job too but guess what? She was a casual worker and hadnât built up enough credit to get JSA either.
We had a bit saved up so dipped into that but if we hadnât had anything weâd have been well and truly fucked. Proper poverty level fucked.
Donât consider the government to be your friend or to be relied upon in times of need. They couldnât give a toss about you and will give you the square root of fuck all if they can get away with it.
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Very sorry to hear about your troubles Jaffod. Youâre clearly a sound feller, and donât deserve to be let down by the system. I hope you and your wife are able to find a solution to your difficulties.
Youâre right to be angry with a system that disadvantages people who are struggling. Itâs wrong, and itâs been getting worse from year to year. Those responsible arenât other strugglers, itâs the fatcats paying no taxes and laughing at all of us as we fight amongst each other. Your enemy is the asset stripping venture capitalists, not the desperate migrants. The powerful manipulators have got poor people hating each other, while theyâre sipping champagne on their yachts.
I really hope you pull through and they donât grind you down (I doubt it, as youâre clearly a fighter), but look at whoâs really gaining from this situation. Is it the offshore exploiting class, or is it the poor rootless migrants?
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Just a point on this. Not aimed at you specifically but I consider it gov/media gaslighting. When they talk about a big drop in immigration, it was still 900k people in according to their figures, which they often revise up later.
That is massive still.
Thanks Bekloppt. Tbh we were never going to starve and the house is paid for but they didnât know that. They had no idea what my circumstances were. What rankled is how they will use anything to stop having to give you a penny. I mean, what is the point of a fucking government when their default position on everything is to fuck you over? Isnât itâs prime purpose to look after itâs citizens?
Incidentally this is something I posted about a while back-
2 years and 8 months in and none of us have seen a penny. Nothing has changed since I last posted about it other than the fact the day the company gets dissolved at Companyâs House draws ever nearer.
Hundreds of people who did the right thing being screwed.
With regards to your other point I get it, migrants are not the root cause of the problem regardless of how they arrived here but that doesnât mean they arenât a massive concern for people for any number of reasons. Iâll leave it at that because itâs just going over old ground.