With no other mainstream options, the parody candidate Count Binface, Farage’s nearest competitor, attracted 9,455 votes, 26.93% of the total. In his “victory speech” posted on X, he noted that this was a 10,000% increase on the 95 votes he managed against Andy Burnham in the Makerfield byelection. “A new dawn has broken, has it not?” he wrote, echoing Tony Blair’s 1997 victory speech. “Literally, because it’s past 6.30 in the morning here in Clacton-on-Sea.”
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You’ve already said that there is zero chance anyone arriving by irregular means being given leave to remain. So what you are actually saying here, when you strip out all the redundant caveats is that people should get access to health care if they need it.
The point is that our response to immigration is always from a position of ignorance because of the absolute swamp of misinformation and lies that exists on this issue.
That there is ‘no ideal solution’ is the only thing you’ve said on this that hasn’t immediately dissolved on contact with reality.
Would you say that ignorance goes both ways? The pro immigration side also being manipulated, for example.
You said ´our´ so seems like you do, but I am just curious. Mainly because I tend to see the left suggest the right is manipulated but never countenance the idea that they may also be being manipulated towards their views.
Who do you suggest is manipulating me? All those left leaning billionaire owned newspapers, TV stations, social media platforms, and bot farms?
The right are controlled by right wing billionaires and the established press.
The left are enlightened dont you know ?
Oh wow mascot more or less agrees 
Probably the media you consume, as with anyone.
I always think, do you think we would have mass immigration if the rich didn´t want it and benefit from it? Not a chance in hell.
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Your misrepresentation of what is being said is clearly deliberate at this point. I quite clearly stated people with no passports/documentation would be denied the right to remain, not people arriving by irregular means, which I’ll assume you mean small boats. If someone came by small boat with proof of who they are and a genuine reason for fleeing their own country then they should be considered for asylum.
You should really stop manipulating what is being said to suit your argument.
Catching up this AM. Clearly a lot of people are uncomfortable with that level too.
What I would say is that reducing it, which is happening, won’t move the needle on the quality of people’s lives. That’s where this fundamentally stems from.
For me that’s the root of many of these arguments. We are not unique in that problem, but it is becoming more acute here. It’s almost ironic that you’ve got people migrating to another country to improve their lives, yet the population of the country they’re moving to think they’re causing the problem in the quality of their lifestyle deteriorating.
What the rich ultimately want is to be richer. They want more of the country to be opened up to their ownership, and they want game to be ever more rigged in their favour. They want all the regulation around rights, employment, environment, nature etc that stops them doing as they please gone
That’s why very rich are funnelling money into Reform. It’s why they bankroll loss leading endeavours like the traditional print media and TV stations like GBeebies. It’s why they invest in social media platforms and strip them of protections against spreading disinformation. These are all ways in which you are being told that you should be very angry about immigration, net zero policies, trans people etc etc. Anything to distract you from what their agenda really is.
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I genuinely think that’s pretty much where we’re at right right now, or at least heading that way. Problem is there’s so many people on the move, largely as a result of stuff we, the US, and other western nations have done in the past, both recent and decades ago.
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Mass immigration makes them richer. Infinite supply of labour and infinite demand for products, services and assets, which they own. Most rich people LOVE mass immigration.
Reform are not right wing. They won´t do a thing to change it. Also there are a lot of rich people. Some may bankroll Reform. 99 percent or whatever don´t. When I see the debates, the Left wing people also repeat the same stats and lines so they´re all being fed the same information just like the right wing people who do the same from their side.
I just don´t understand why you can´t countenance the idea that the Left wing is also open to manipulation. Or even that people make their own opinions based on the world they see. Perhaos Reform and Restore are a response to that rather than the cause. It´s not that crazy a suggestion in my view.
Hmm I am not sure i´d agree. You could argue that removing a lot of people would free up housing, reduce competition for jobs and reduce pressure on the state, schools, policing etc.
Of course, the analysis really needs to be done to balance that with what you might lose, but I think for poorer people in particular, reversing mass immigration would benefit them.
On your point on the irony. True. I think mass immigration benefits the immigrants and not the host people.
I also want to add that, I agree with the billionaires issue too. It´s not JUST mass immigration. We do have a big issue with inequality as well and many other issues.
That doesn’t change the point. Are you allowing people access to healthcare or letting them die?
The point that is repeatedly made is that people fleeing desperate situations do not always have documentation. And if you fall into the hands of people traffickers and modern day slavers the first thing they will do is take your passport. It’s actually ironic that the absence of documentation is more likely to be proof of genuinely needing asylum than turning up with a passport, a drivers licence, and three utility bills from the last six months. That’s the whole reason why people are supposedly dumping their documents at sea.
That’s the problem with him, his flat refusal to accept people can form their own opinions on what they see with their own eyes rather than being spoon-fed their views by those billionaires.
I like reading his posts so not a personal attack, but this is kinda what I was getting at.
The whole ´you´re manipulated and we are not´ thing is something a lot of left wing people say and it kinda suggests they are manipulated to at least some degree as they all say the same thing. Just as they often reel off the same stats and points.
I think we are probably all manipulated by our media and figures we follow, to some degree. Left, right, centre.
More waffle that doesn’t address the point, that you misrepresent and distort what’s been said to suit your agenda.
Nail on the head.
People don’t like what is happening now based on the decisons of people who died a long time ago.
Such is life…that’s how the world works.
So just to backtrack a bit, are you seeing with your own eyes asylum seekers being given mobile phones, trips to the cinema, driving lessons and cigarettes?
You can’t on one hand bollock me for pouring scorn on opinions formed by what people have seen with their own eyes, then on the other try to support your view with a load of things you definitely haven’t seen with your own eyes.
You avoided the question before, so I’m sure you’ll avoid it again, but where have you got the idea that asylum seekers get free driving lessons? It most certainly isn’t your own experience. You have obviously read it somewhere.
I believe I conceded I’d been wrong about the mobile phones and driving lessons earlier in the thread?
As for seeing things with my own eyes, yes, every day walking or driving around the city. And it has nothing to do with phones etc, that’s just yet another example of you distorting things.It has everything to do with my city bearing no resemblance to what it was 10 years ago, and not for the better.
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