Unfortunately, there are too many issues where the victim has been failed. I saw a story only a couple of days ago where the CPS allowed a bloke guilty of taking photos of children and converting them into a more sexualised form being given bail until his sentencing. His bail address was his house, over looking the school of which he was convicted of taking photos.
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Thatâs if you choose to see the world as âbadâ people or âgoodâ people.
But what youâre saying doesnât contradict @Mascotâs point about poor decision making abilities. Sometimes people just have mental health disorders that lead them to do precisely what you said.
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There is certainly a phenomenon of people offending in order to go to prison, because prison has institutionalised them to the point that they can no longer function in society.
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Iâve known people like that , for who life on the outside is merely a short respite from the time they actually spend in prison. Nothing on earth is ever going to rehabilitate them.
Look at this for an example of the absolute shitshow public discourse has become.
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Five people are arrested near RAF Fairford, on suspicion of a bomb plot, after being discovered with suspicious materials in a van near the base.
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The police ask people not to speculate, while they investigate.
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Nigel Farage immediately takes to social media claiming they men are Iranian nationals, they arrived on a small boat, and that he has been warning this would happen for years.
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The police reveal that the five individuals are British nationals, and have been released on bail, clearly not charged with any terror offences (The Terrorism Act give the police the right to hold suspects for two weeks). The investigation continues.
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Nigel Farage says he never said anything about them being Iranian nationals or that they came on small boats. The video is still on Facebook.
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Farage has continued to speculate on why they were released on bail, while bail was denied to Daniel Thompson after he slashed that boat (He is already on bail for another charge, he refused to allow the police access to his phone, and he refused to give an address he could be bailed to).
We all know why Farage does this. He doesnât care about truth or justice. He just wants to whip up his supporters.
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Not really institutionalised,
but it shows some peoples attitude towards prisonâŚ
I used to play football with a lad,
Travelling to a game 1 night he said he wouldnât be able to play in next weeks game,
His reason was he had court the monday and was just going to take the 14 day sentence rather than pay the fine!
He argued he would catch up with few mates in there and get a smoke!
Shame as he was a bloody good RB!
With that experience of the criminal justice system, you could argue he was qualified to be a PL-level one!
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Itâs a funny story, but itâs not really what Iâm talking about.
There is an established psychological condition where people become dependent on the routine and restrictions of prison (or other institutions) to the point of preferring it to freedom, and being unable to cope without someone telling them when to eat, go to bed, etc.
And now some uninformed and clueless fool in US is buying into Farages lies.
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I think ex-armed forces people can experience this as well, and even some ex-footballers, anywhere where people have led very structured lives suddenly being overwhelmed by being fully responsible for themselves and how they spend their time.
In the course of my job Iâve interviewed people working in the criminal justice system, where a big thing thatâs been introduced in recent times is support services for prisoners nearing their release date, so when they hit the streets they already know where they need to go to get a job (some even have employment lined up for their release), get accommodation, even how to do the weekly grocery shop, pay bills - life skills many of us take for granted but if youâre an adult on your own suddenly in the position of needing to know how to do all this stuff it can be overwhelming. And itâs shown to be making a big impact on the level of reoffending.
Essentially, if you havenât got a clue how to function in normal society, it makes it far, far more likely youâll drift back into familiar behaviours.
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Both of you raise valid points.
I agree that there is a high level of justification/portraying the offender as a victim of some sort. Society, has failed him, he has ADHD Autism, etc.
I donât doubt that there are a lot of people in the system who struggle to or are incapable of processing their actions. Whether, this is down to Autism/ADHD or not realising the impact of their actions, then for me it is irrelevant.
The issue/question here should be are we giving them enough support to manage their personal situation and thinking.
*FYI, roughly 8% of the prison population have ADHD and 3.2% Autism.
I think it is obvious that the majority of people who end up in Prison make bad decisions. However, is it only a bad decision if they get caught and sentenced. There are also a number of offenders who make chronologically bad decisions everyday who arenât in prison. Whether that be carrying a Knife, driving without insurance, shop lifting.
As at @jafford mentioned there really isnât a strong enough deterrent for staying out of Prison. Prisons should be more challenging, character developing, Why ban Internet when it is so easy to get a burner phone? When criminality is allowed to breed inside the prison walls. Maybe, you are someone inside, someone respected.
As you referred to there is definitely a percentage of people who reoffend because they feel safer inside, it is what they know. When they get released, where do they go to? They go back to the same struggles the same social circles, etc.
There is a lad who begs at the traffic lights, on the roads locally to me, an old acquaintance.
If I see him I will invite him back to mine for a shower, drink, provide him with my old socks, etc.
We have a couple of drinks and a chat. His life has been quite turbulent, challenging. He has tried getting clean, spending months in rehab. The problem is, he comes out and he has no where to go, no support network and the only people he can relate to feel safe with get him back on the drugs within hours.
I can imagine a lot of offenders face a similar scenario. Maybe there is an arguement to invest more in providing a safe place than building more Prisons.
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The experience of our own Bill Shankly on this one.
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Wouldnât be surprised if it turns out they were just nicking Diesel
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The study I posted suggests it is actually closer to 50% of the prison population has a nuero-divergent condition of some kind (so ASD, ADHD, but also things like Dyslexia). When I was reading it I couldnât work out if that was confirmed, or suspected based on undiagnosed conditions (probably the latter).
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I had a conversation with the Scottish Justice minister (around 10 years ago now) on the subject of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS/FASD). There were surveys from Canada and Australia that showed many people in custody from indigenous populations suffered from the condition, with high rates of alcohol consumption amongst pregnant mothers being a factor.
He said that he was surprised it wasnât diagnosed more in the Scottish prison service. I pointed out that it is barely diagnosed in the general population, and I think the penny dropped.
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I think this really comes down to what you think prison is for.
Being a wet liberal, I think the obvious solution to the prison places issue is to stop sending so many people there. Prison should be reserved for people who are a danger to the public (can paint that definition quite broadly) or the most serious crimes.
You can make prison as harsh as you want, but it will never be a deterrent, because it never has been. Prison wasnât a barrel of laughs in Victorian times, and people still committed crime. We used to have a death penalty, and that didnât put people off committing crime. Could it be that the thought process that leads someone to commit a crime isnât one that is cognisant of consequences?
And prison is still the most effective way to take someone from low level offending to career criminality. Itâs called âUniversity of Crimeâ for a reason.
However a lot of people view prison as punishment, a kind of revenge for transgression. If you feel that way, itâs understandable that youâd want prison harsher and more punitive. Thatâs not for me though.
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That is just another one of those âpick the crap outcome you preferâ. A prisoner costs somewhere around ÂŁ60K on average per year, women are above that average, under-18s somewhere around 400% of that average. Almost every penny is probably better spent somewhere else, the larger the prison population the larger the dead-weight loss to society.
I have no idea how people spend their careers in the sector. Every dimension of it seems depressing.
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Well women & children not being raped or beaten, people not having their goods stolen, innocent pedestrians not being mowed down by drivers high on nitrus oxide or drunk is way more important than money in my book.
Maybe not everyones book though
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i get what you are saying about prisoners been institutionalized and i agree with you, there are several people from the area in my hometown who i would say are like that
my point was about the attitude of some people who get to sent to prison,
where it comes across as so its only prison, so what
and i get to see my matesâŚ