Who do you wish to sell

[Mascot]

@rab

I think we need to be careful about getting rid of too many in one window and leaving us a huge amount of work to do.

Kelleher seems like a prime candidate and I’d be okay with that. He’s not ousting Alisson, he’s too good to be a back up and he no doubt has ambitions to be a number one somewhere. Adrian can go.

Matip I’d be fine with going. Just think his time has come. We don’t want to be offering him another deal and we don’t want him wandering off on a free in a years time. If Matip is going, I’d keep Gomez. He’s better than he’s shown recently, counts as homegrown and can cover right back. He’d get another year for me. Phillips deserves a chance to go and play somewhere.

Ox, Keita, Milner are gone. Fabinho is struggling but unless we get a huge wedge for him, which we won’t after the season he’s had then I think you’re creating yourself another need in CM by pushing him out. Keep him another year and see if he can find his form or just as a squad option. Will still have two years left on his contract next summer so move him on then if he is truly shot. Personally I think a break and some younger legs in midfield with him might help recover some of his form.

I don’t see us getting any offers for Henderson or us pushing him out the door. He stays but as a squad option rather than as part of the best 11. Jones stays. Homegrown squad option and hope he sorts the injury niggles. Another to reassess next summer though.

Up top we’re pretty well stacked. I love Firmino, my favourite player of this period but, I think we’d be compounding our issues by signing up another declining player the wrong side of 30 to a new contract. I think sadly, the time has come.

I think we can do that without adding anyone else up top. Salah stays, Elliott sees a bit more time wide right as we revamp out CM options. With those two plus Jota, Nunez, Diaz, Gakpo and Carvalho we should have more than enough to cope without Bobby and allows us to move to a new system that has more of a number 9 as the focal point which seems to be what we’ve been moving towards.

Leaves us needing an experienced back up GK, promote one of the young lads to third choice. Then a new CB and two genuine first team options in CM with Bajetic now part of the first team squad. Doesn’t seem unsurmountable for a summer but that first 11 will feel like it’s had a pretty big refresh over the last couple of years with Nunez, Gakpo, Bajetic, Diaz, Konate and three new signings this summer all arriving in the space of two years.

That would be pretty much my slate of outs too.

The only addition would be that if (!) we can get 80m for Salah, I’d be OK with that.

I see a lot of people wanting to bomb out Gomez over Matip, but I think that’s crazy. Matip is 31 and has never played anywhere but RCB. Gomez is 26, plays anywhere across the back four, and is homegrown. The very best Utd sides always had a couple of lads like Joe Gomez. Not flashy, not the best, but can pop up anywhere and do a decent job.

With Fabinho, I’d be very surprised if we can get any kind of offer that makes it worth moving him on. Clubs aren’t stupid. We can see his decline, you can be sure that everyone else can. But I don’t think there is any place for him in midfield next year, aside from emergency cover. So, if we’re moving on Matip - which we should - I would be happy to roll into next season with Van Dijk, Konate, Gomez and Fabinho as my Centre Back options, maybe with Rhys Williams as #5, and then look at Gvardiol next summer, as a Van Dijk replacement.

Totally agree on Bobby. Love the guy, but we don’t want to keep making the same mistake over and over again. Over the last two years he has become incredibly injury prone, and unless we are talking a one year extension, on a fair wage, I think we should take this opportunity to shake hands and wish him well.

Which brings us to midfield. I see Ox, Keita and Milner leaving. This leaves us with Thiago, Henderson, Jones and Bajcetic.

A lot of what we do from here depends on

A) how Klopp wants to set up. I look at the recruitment over the last few years and see signing that Klopp is really wanting to move towards a 4231, 4222, or 4411. I don’t understand why we’ve loaded up on number tens and attacking mids if this isn’t the case.

B) Trent’s position. If the intention is to keep Trent at full back, we have got to get legs and energy into midfield. If there is a move towards midfield for him, then that obviously has a knock on towards the kind of midfielders he need and how many.

So if either we are going to properly move to a variation on a two man midfield and/or Trent is making the switch, we can probably throw everything at Bellingham and leave it at that. If we’re still going to play three, we need another one.

Personally I’d be looking at 4231, and using Hendo, Thiago, Bajcetic, Trent, Bellingham* and Jones as options for the two, and Elliott, Carvalho, Gakpo, Jota, Diaz, Doak, Jones and Nunez as the three in front. There is a ton of flexibility there.

The only thing is that I’m not sure where Salah plays in a 4231…

[redfanman]

@Mascot

I see a lot of people wanting to bomb out Gomez over Matip, but I think that’s crazy. Matip is 31 and has never played anywhere but RCB. Gomez is 26, plays anywhere across the back four, and is homegrown. The very best Utd sides always had a couple of lads like Joe Gomez. Not flashy, not the best, but can pop up anywhere and do a decent job.

I think a factor here is that Matip when fit has been the better performer at CB of the two and we have a couple of youngsters fighting for that back up role to Trent at RB.

[Mascot]

@redfanman

I think a factor here is that Matip when fit has been the better performer at CB of the two and we have a couple of youngsters fighting for that back up role to Trent at RB.

I thinks debatable, but the fact remains if you are going to have a fourth choice centre back, you can’t have him only able to cover one position.

[Zoran]

There’s no doubt Matip’s played better football than Gomez over the last few seasons. Hence why he was ahead of him in the pecking order.

It’s also impossible to predict who would actually be in the pecking order below Virgil. Could be one of the guys staying, could be Konate, could be that new player.

Matip playing only RCB is not so important, since Konate can play both RCB and LCB. Plus, the new guy coming in could also play LCB. While you have other players being able to play both sides or the other side, we’re fine.

We had Hyypia as 4th choice and he as a right footer almost always played LCB (unless he was partnered with Agger on the rare occasion). We had Klavan as 4th choice being left footed and only an option for LCB.

There are other pros for keeping Gomez ahead of Matip, it’s mostly age and homegrown status and also being versatile. I’m hoping that will not keep him here for a decade or more, unless he shows better performances, which he hasn’t consistently done in a while.

We also have to see what the market feels. We might be willing to sell player A, but not get offers or good enough offers. We might rather keep player B, but get a nice offer.

[redfanman]

I’m in agreement with @zoran. My point was rather towards the idea that keeping Matip over Gomez was a crazy one, than absolutist one is better than the other one.

[Zoran]

Matip’s never played LCB for us, but it’s worse to have 3 lefties par example. I could easily see us keeping one of Matip/Gomez, Konate, Virgil and then sign a new CB. Even if that guy can only play RCB and we offload Gomez. The rest is up to them, fight and earn starts/minutes. Konate is making nice steps, but nobody is really automatic there other than Virgil (who himself wasn’t at his best at times, but let’s be real he’s still the main man).

That said, I do think that long term, Konate would be probably more suited to play RCB. But that’s not the priority now.

[cynicaloldgit]

Get Gvardiol.

Gvardiol LCB
Konaté RCB

Sorted.

[rupzzz]

wrong thread, right idea!

[koptician]

Who do I wish to sell?

[Limiescouse]

@rab

I think we need to be careful about getting rid of too many in one window and leaving us a huge amount of work to do.

While I agree with this, I also think there has to be a sword that is seen to fall. Senior players who underperformed this year, regardless of how reasonable the explanations might be, have to feel relieved to have been given another chance and that cannot happen if we only get rid of the obvious candidates with contract issues and those with presumed market value.

I’m not one for Jose style humiliation, but there needs to be a response that is felt by the players lucky enough to still be here next year.

[rab]

@Limiescouse

While I agree with this, I also think there has to be a sword that is seen to fall. Senior players who underperformed this year, regardless of how reasonable the explanations might be, have to feel relieved to have been given another chance and that cannot happen if we only get rid of the obvious candidates with contract issues and those with presumed market value.

I’m not one for Jose style humiliation, but there needs to be a response that is felt by the players lucky enough to still be here next year.

I would agree with this in an ideal world. But, given we’ve possibly four outfield players walking for free already then pushing many more, especially in midfield, would leave us a lot of work to do and a lot of bedding in needed. There’s already a strong possibility we’re looking at bedding in two brand new starters in midfield for the beginning of next season. And neither of the three new lads up top this season have had a great settling in experience so far.

I’m not sure i’d be looking at moving on any of the existing squad midfielders in addition to the three we’ll likely lose for nothing whilst we’re settling in new starters. Or for that matter ripping up the back four at the same time we’re bedding in a new midfield.

[rab]

@Mascot

The only addition would be that if (!) we can get 80m for Salah, I’d be OK with that.

I’d take that too. Can’t see it after the season he’s had and the contract he’s now on but realistically, bar one or two, a healthy bid for anyone in the squad would be something I’d hope we’d consider. Previosuly we had a lot of untouchables, now I think you’d say they all have a not exorbitant price that you’d happily take for them.

[Limiescouse]

@rab

I would agree with this in an ideal world. But, given we’ve possibly four outfield players walking for free already then pushing many more, especially in midfield, would leave us a lot of work to do and a lot of bedding in needed.

This is why I have considered the otherwise outlandish idea of actually extending Naby. On its surface its dumb, but if it allows to make a point of getting rid of another senior player whose exit would be seen as a response to this season’s failings then it’s worth considering.

[The-AllMightyReds]

[koptician]

He can stay

[koptician]

@rab

would leave us a lot of work to do and a lot of bedding in needed

To what end…how is it going to be any worse than how things are now?

[Semmy]

oh boy, haven’t been in here in a while.
going off the squad list, here’s the outgoings

Keepers - Adrian (58k/wk)
Defenders - Rhys Williams (10k/wk)
Midfielders - Naby Keita (120k/wk), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (120k/wk), Arthur Melo (110k/wk)
Forwards - Firmino (180k/wk)

I don’t want to lose Bobby, I think he’s been key to our success since the arrival of Klopp and a lynchpin. Take a look at our win record with him starting matches, tells quite a story. We lost to Brentford, Brighton, and Wolves with him out of the lineup, agg score 9:1.

But he’s 31. Am hoping maybe we can get a 2yr contract at ~110k/wk over the line that puts him to 33? A bit of stability for Nunez/Gakpo to learn from.

[koptician]

If we have legs in midfield to cover the ground/press effectively/link up defence and attack then the whole team instantly look better

[sandsoftime]

Thinking maybe Jurgen will have a chat with Trent… A sort of clear the air as to whether he wants to remain at Anfield under the tutlage of Jurgen or does he think he can do better elsewhere…!
A sort of get your act together if you ever have visions of becoming Stevie G mk2 and what is needed to achieve this… or, don’t let the door hit you on the arse on your way out if your whole body language doesn’t improve 100%

[rab]

@Limiescouse

This is why I have considered the otherwise outlandish idea of actually extending Naby. On its surface its dumb, but if it allows to make a point of getting rid of another senior player whose exit would be seen as a response to this season’s failings then it’s worth considering.

It’s not a crazy idea and it sounded like the club were open to the idea for the right price. However, it looks like his demands might be too rich for us and if there’s even an ounce of doubt that it’d actually represent good value for us then I think fine, let him walk. He’s not heading to a club bigger than us so good luck getting paid more than we’re offering.