They are being asked to do different things than they were then. We are still playing in a 433 but we are expecting our CMs to get higher, wider and be more creative. The DM has to cover more space side to side, the wing backs have to defend more often while still getting forwards. The wingers starting position are much wider.
Its the same formstion but a completely different system. So far, its a completely shite system.
I agree it’s better to play Salah up front with another striker, that’s why my comment to Sweeting’s post was that I think it would work if turned to a 3-5-2 rather than a 3-4-3. Which would have Salah and Gakpo up top and width completely taken by Robertson and Trent. But the problem would be then who to put as a 10. In Sweeting’s starting 11, I definitely wouldn’t move Elliot (who sweeting has on RW in his 3-4-3) to play attacking midfield. I think Carvalho would do a better job there. So I’d probably go with that.
In a 3-4-3 like Sweeting has it, I’d go with Doak instead of Elliot. But yes, that would mean Salah up top with 3 forwards. While not ideal, I don’t see anyone better than him to play centrally, whether in the current formation (4-3-3) or Sweeting’s formation (3-4-3), for the reasons I posted above.
That’s why I would favour a 3-5-2, plus it would bring another midfield body to address the penetrable midfield issue.
We’d be a bit limited in the wide areas though, but I think it would be better suited to who we have right now, and how we currently play.
I like the idea of a 442 until Jota/Diaz come back…
Get Salah and Nunez both central, they were starting to develop a solid understanding the last few games… Pitty they fluffed most chances… Gakpo then rotates with them.
This then means you have 2 midfielders holding the central ground - Thiago + another
The other 2 wide mifielders are tasked with attacking the space out wide but coming centrally to help build up. I think Elliot/Jones would be very good at this. Trent would also work with Gomez or Ramsay behind him.
The fullbacks are told to stay wide and create overlaps and fuck off this underlap nonsense.
Long term (ignoring Wolves maybe haha)
Yeah, with the state Carvalho’s in (struggling a bit on the sides), I don’t see Klopp playing him in what he calls the “most difficult position”.
It’s also the position where we’re obviously looking if we can move away from a player like Bobby to a player like Nunez. That is still very much up in the air, I have no clue how that will work out long term (under Klopp and also while Salah is here).
I don’t see us switching to 3 at the back. If we do, we do. Not going to write it off. Just gonna be curious and see how we do.
We will probably look for improvement in 3 ways:
Not to mention also trying to get players back fit, whatever we can do.
Do the stats support this? I thought he was doing fairly alright for England at the World Cup in that regard?
My guess is that we’re just all out of sorts all over, positioning-wise, movement-wise, and passing-wise, and that if all that clicked together, we’d instantly look a lot better than we do right now, even with the exact same players.
The fact that we were so, so far from the opponent against Brighton was worrying. Even taking into account that they’re one of the better sides in the league when it comes to playing through the lines.
I actually don’t doubt the players’ willingness to do a collective press. I don’t think Klopp has lost the dressing room (at least no proper reasons for me to believe that), that the players have had enough mentally, etc.
But it seems to me like we’re trying to do it and are not physically able to. That is a bit shocking from us at this stage, it’s not like it’s May and we’re into game 60-something.
Of course, there could be a lack of sync also. It’s not all about purely running more and running harder. Needs to be smart.
But I have no idea how much we can repare this. I was hoping that a mini pre-season in Dubai could potentially raise our levels (not much, because you build your base in the summer), albeit also potentially having more injuries (as we train harder in order to “play harder”).
Fair points. I just think that the three things you said we’ll try, although correct, while take some time, and that the whole discussion of tweaking concerned what we do until we address our issue mid-term, in the three ways you have mentioned. If we just wait for those three things and just keep playing in a way that doesn’t work, we will be out of every single competition and season target within a few weeks.
Wasn’t the start of the season almost exactly like we never had a break between seasons? I remember similar lethargy after the Community Shield…
I don’t think Henderson is a major issue but it can’t be with Fabinho.
Fabinho has been off for ages to the point than Milner has played better games than he has in the last 18 months at number 6.
Yeah, things take time and it’s not all perfectly in sync. Right now, we’re getting some players back fit and losing others. It’s hard to raise the level a bit and then keep it, start improving. We’re waiting for that game or few games in a row to turn this around. The training point is just a must, regardless of our formation. Also about translating that onto the pitch. We’ll see how far we go in terms of changing things in order to improve, if we really get to a stage when Klopp decides a new formation (any version of 3 at the back).
I’m guessing that the problem is trying to change systems will also be a massive transition that’s not easy to implement mid-season, especially if your end goal still remains the same and you’re making the change just as a fire-fighting mitigation.
I might be mistaken, but I’m pretty sure this transition has been going on since we won the league. I remember Jürgen emphasising that we were going to “attack the title not defend it” or something along those lines before that season fell apart. Last season we also saw the positional shift of Alexander-Arnold, Henderson (and Elliott at the start of the season), and Salah, so it’s not something new this season, but something that seems to have been pushed slightly further (recall the comments at the start of the season from Jürgen about how Salah’s starting position was correct, just not what happened after).
As a shot in the dark, I’d wager that Fabinho has seen the most minutes for us for any midfielder, which might be a reason why. All the more reason that having someone in who can play his position makes sense, whether it’s bringing someone new, or having Bajcetic get more time there.
I think it’s that lack of physical base which hurts us currently, along with the loss of Mané and Bobby upfront (incredibly hard pressers) and our two potential replacements for them being out injured, alongside Bobby. That leaves our midfield exposed, hence everyone suddenly thinking that our midfield is not good enough.
That kind of injury jinx is a real kick in the teeth, and would unsettle any team to be fair. But yeah, the preparations for this season went wrong somewhere. Probably not enough rest for the players planned in or something.
It’s stunning though how other clubs managed just fine, Arsenal as a prime example. They look as fresh as young roses when compared to us.
To be fair we always start with fuck all energy after any winter break we have… Even when we were on top we ground out a lot of 1-0 type wins around this time… It’s why having a solid defence is key and the start to everything.
He probably has and it’s showing badly. You don’t have to follow a game that in-depth to see it’s a major issue.
At 29 it’s a concern mind.
I remember feeling alright at the end of pre-season and after the City win in the CS.
Not as good as the year before, when we looked like hungry, fresh, fast animals, but it didn’t seem to me that a season (half of it so far) like this was around the corner.
The Fulham game was then such a difference between CS and the first league game. Then you have a few good games when you think, okay, we’re back on the way towards our level.
But then we know what happened…
Pre-season is probably not the only reason but it seems to me with time and also what Klopp said, is that some things didn’t work out as we wanted. Or maybe we also made mistakes, it’s all possible.
I’m thinking that a fit Jota and Diaz would have made a world of difference to our defence, with their speed and acceleration, let alone the movement that they offer in our attacking.
Then the midfield collapsed, not because of poor play, but literally losing one midfielder almost every game, which I think no team in the league can really cope with, not even the petro-teams.
At this point, I think if Jürgen was offered a choice between 3 midfielders out for the whole season, or the constant disruptions, he’d 100% choose the former.
Also, Arsenal have not had any major injuries yet, no?
The Villa game was alright, I thought there’s a little improvement, better shape, “just” defend better and we’ll go on a positive run now.
But then between Villa and Brighton, our level just decreased with every game.
I think a lot of it stems from that also the 19 injuries meant we were all over the place at the beginning.
It’s no coincidence us and City look the most energy deficient of the league… Whilst it’s not the mitigation/excuse, all the other clubs have played so many few games than we did so I’d say there is something there. However City were smarter in the summer, playing only 2 friendlies v’s 5 + the community shield for us. Pretty insane our first friendly was 6 days after we returned to pre-season in Asia as well.