Any news on his mother?
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Of course itâs not ok. But I knew there was no malice in it, no harm meant.
As regards Rubiales, he dug his own grave.
Thatâs also definition of âin the momentâ. FIFA loves their ceremony and this would have been a while after final whistle- theyâd have handed out 2nd place medals before this etc etc
But boys gonna be boys, they canât control themselves and we should make an effort to be inclusive by accepting them as they are.
not what i meant at all, neither instance is ok, but one seems like it was more of a spur of the moment thing than the other
TĂ´ be fair these donât at least last 42 hours like the draws.
This was satire, not directed to you.
Just a very wrong take of what some are probably saying.
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Thought not
Fortunately, Spanish men have taken the lesson to heart.
its getting a bit all too precious when a man cant even cop a feel without being hammered by the woke brigadeâŚ
you do know its a compliment, right?
Sorry, were you asking for a genuine response, or were you just baiting for your confirmation bias?
Genuine response.
Curious to know what it was I said that offended you.
Okay, fair. I just found it odd you were picking up on that when I havenât actually been in here for more than a few seconds the last couple of days.
It goes back to your original post, where you mentioned the following:
Iâm not sure why you felt the need to include this part. It suggests that you think her reaction was germane to the whole incident, and/or that she was okay with it, which was one of the initial lies by Rubiales, and indeed the machinery at the RFEF.
The use of the word âsporadicâ (which I presume was meant to be âspontaneousâ) also suggests that such behaviour is fine, and can be excused. However, that suggests that any violation of personal space is fine, as long as itâs spontaneous, inspired by celebration.
Taking that further, if he groped her chest or her genitals out of spontaneous celebration, would that also be fine? I would presume not, so what would be the deciding boundary of what behaviour is considered appropriate? What makes kissing someone appropriate that other sexual contact would not be appropriate? Is it the intent? Is it the act itself? What makes it okay for someone to touch another person without their consent?
And that is what it boils down to me. Any form of non-consensual physical contact should not be deemed as appropriate in society. Having heard the stories of many friends who have experienced such non-consensual contact, which would no doubt be deemed as nothing out of the ordinary by some, it is clear to me that such experiences can often be harrowing and threatening. And this isnât even coming close to what happens to people with histories of sexual assault who have such contact visited upon them.
Iâm not sure what makes people presume that taking umbrage at any form of non-consensual physical contact is the result of being too sensitive. Itâs not the aggressorâs right to touch someone else. Your words at the very least, seem to cheapen that.
Furthermore, the second line and the paragraph after seem to suggest that because she didnât seem to react to it at the time, that behaviour was okay and she was fine with it. Having recently been the target of racial abuse (and that was verbal, not even physical), I can assure you, her reaction is not atypical. Itâs not like the act changes your behaviour right away, because the act itself can be so far out of what your expectations for such a situation are. Why would she have been able to process being kissed against her will at the medal ceremony of the World Cup, which was literally the pinnacle of her career, on the spot, or even in the immediate aftermath? Listen to the stories of sexual assault survivors, and you often see how they were just frozen in that moment, or were still in denial even long after the fact. It doesnât take much to see how her reactions arenât incompatible with someone who did not want such contact at all. Itâs also how many sexual predators tend to operate, in plain sight, knowing that their power will let them get away with it.
The mention that â[o]bservers started the ball rolling with the condemnationâ suggests to me that you think itâs third-parties making a mountain out of a molehill. Her own reactions aside, you seem to be suggesting that because it wasnât her who raised the issue initially, therefore it isnât that big a deal? The problem is, the inequality of women in such situations is only perpetuated by such a mindset, that only the victims themselves are permitted to be outraged or take action. When such victims feel powerless in such situations, as is the context within the Spanish womenâs football team, is it any surprise at all that she might not have reacted to it from the start, let alone with the context that she should have been celebrating one of the biggest occasions of her life? Furthermore, how can societal change be expected if onlookers just stay silent and let it be the responsibility of a victim to force the issue of change? Just look at the article @El_Dorado posted alone, if not for the programme host, Nacho Abad, would the perpetrator have gotten away with it scot-free?
Sexual assault is something that changes the lives of its victims tremendously, and to see it dismissed so casually really offended me. It was made worse with the (as it seemed to me) flippant attitude with which it was done. If you only just saw a couple of clips, and did not bother educating yourself with the context around it, why even make a comment?
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Wow, lots of presumptions in there.
Still none the wiser how I offended you.
Best we just leave it here.
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I csn understand you disagreeing with the comment but offended??? You must be a barrel of laughs to be around.
I actually donât think she would have made an issue out of it. Observers did start the ball rolling. Rubiales, then told a porky, saying she said it was ok to kiss her. She responded initially with a non too robust, no thatâs not what happened. Her denial got more robust, the more Rubiales doubled down on his defence.
I am not giving my opinion to the rights or wrongs, just my view to how it all unfolded.
Thought @redalways post was very clear so surprised youâre none the wiser.
Shame you wonât take the time to explain where you think presumptions have been made also, given you asked for an explanation (that clearly took a lot of thought and time).
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I didnât make any judgement in my initial post, just how I saw it from limited clips.
He claimed to be offended.
I asked him what I had said to offend him.
He then typed war & peace using the word suggest or presume multiple times to describe how I was making my point.
When in fact I wasnât even making any particular point.
I may be, I may not be.
Forgive me for having a large amount of empathy with people around me. In a direct link to the previous part, I am well capable of being a barrel of laughs around people who genuinely care for and respect other people. For those who donât, and who think making an insensitive joke is okay and people who get offended by it are to be blamed, then I am absolutely no fun to be around.
Neither do I, but not because of the same reasons. If you look at the systematic oppression of the players by the RFEF, and the lack of support that they received when they went on strike because of the maltreatment they previously had, itâs unsurprising if she would think that raising a ruckus is not going to get her anywhere. Just look at the impunity which some men expect with sexual assault on camera, as per the post by @El_Dorado.
Look at how much resistance #MeToo ran into, and those are people with cultural power. I think that some change has happened at all is very surprising. I think she too was surprised with the support she was receiving, otherwise would she would probably have been bullied into submission.
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Then why feel the need to include those lines?
You still havenât answered that point. If you werenât making a point, then those two paragraphs were completely irrelevant. But you chose to put those thoughts out there. And now youâre backing away from them.
Jesus.
I said she didnât look too bothered at the time.
Iâm not a mind reader, I donât know how she felt
And itâs pretty factual that the condemnation started almost immediately by pretty much every media outlet.
If I offended you, then I feel sympathetic and apologetic in equal measure.
If I didnât, then move on.