As I framed before, I think that’s an overstated point.
I understand the theory. But buying a twenty four year old left back and not using him when your regular left back is running on fumes because the central defence is unstable seems a generous place to hide.
If he was good enough, he would have been getting the minutes.
That’s computer game thinking ‚I have a BackUp - I’m using him when first choice runs out of power’
Truth is we had no easy games this season. Constantly under pressure. Injuries, decisions, fixtures, results …
Player had 4 injuries (+COVID I think). Never been able to ‚establish‘
You know why Klopp is ‘brave’ enough to use an (attacking) midfielder like Naby Keita out of nowhere against Real Madrid in an CL quarter final but can not do that with a defender (or goalkeeper)?
Because if Keita fucks up he can be used again in a few weeks.
But if a young defender (Rhys Williams) or goalkeeper (Karius) fucks up - opponents and the whole football world will remember and use it against them. Club careers can end with something like this.
Thats the same reason why (when having 4 young CBs in Nat, Rhys, Kabak and Davies available) Klopp refused to start two of them together for weeks and instead partnered them with an experienced Fabinho.
That’s a bit below the belt and to be honest you insult yourself more than me when you refuse to entertain a different perspective.
Let me ask this, if you were a decent left back, 24 years old, and your manager told you you are actually good enough but he won’t play you because the centre half is injured… even though you can see the first choice left back needs a rest…what’s your thought process?
‘Ah fair enough, I’ll just keep training hard’ or would it be ‘fuck that for a laugh, I deserve my shot’
I mean, it’s not like a left back would be the straw that broke the camels back when it comes to the defence, we’re not talking replacing robbing permantly, we’re talking spells here and there.
Phillips is 24 and actually older than Gomez so not all that young really.
coming back to it it does my head in a bit this acceptance that Kostas isnt getting game time…not becuase, say, hes not good enough, but becuase a 24 year old footballer couldnt possibly be asked to perform a role in the first team if he isnt babysat by the best central defender in the world.
this is top level football, a left back is meant to perform a role, i understand completely the theory, i agreed with it in October, November, December…but its April now…a further three months down the track…Kabak and Phillips prior to RM had kept 4 clean sheets…
im expecting to see Kostas in the first team soon enough.
youve also got to think of the playing groups mentality…if your in a team setting and you can see one of your mates is dead on his feet, and every day his replacement looking fresh and ready isnt getting a run…thats undermining a lot of stuff mentally.
of course, thats the way i see it playing out on FM2021
You are really skewering some of the reasonable suggestions that have been presented. Most of the discussion has been not on whether Kostas would need to be babied through a game, but whether he was ready to be the senior figure babying the CBs through a game.
not really
this is why i hate getting into a debate on the web. i stated something a bit half arsed and thats all that gets picked up on.
fact is, theres plenty of computations that could have happened during games to get Kostas on the park, that doesnt have to involve him playing next to Rys Williams.
again, its an overstated reason
we have a 24 year old left back we paid 7 mil for, and hes getting splinters whilst Robbo is just a hologram…
whilst ive repeatedly said i completely understand the theory behind the situation restricting his game time, my personal opinion is its massively overstated, if the quality was there, he would have forced the issue by now.
now this is weirdly enough, not me writing him off, its obviously been a ridiculous season to come in, however, if you were to ask me at the start of the season and set the parameters of what would transpire injury and form wise, i would have guessed he would have more minutes under his belt… its like Naby…i havent given up, but i am stating its not working out to date.
in old football parlance… he hasnt ‘grabbed his chance’
now if Klopps protecting him because of the centre back situation, or Klopps protecting the centre backs becuase hes new is all the same result…
in absolute terms, and in my opinion only obviously, he should be playing more football.
(weirdly enough, i bet you the player himself agrees with me)
I think it’s more because Robertson has been defending well even if his contribution going forward has fallen off a cliff.
Robbo is one of Klopp’s most trusted players.
I agree with @Redbj on his points. It is odd that Tsimikas hardly gets a look in, even as a sub in the dying minutes when the result is already secured.
In the last start he got, until injury struck him, I thought he looked in sync with the team.
We now have a situation where Robbo is running on fumes and Tsimikas is seemingly not trusted to replace him. Given the current form our main starters are in at the moment, I do not suppose the drop off in quality would make much of a difference.
Fuck, I thought he was younger
I think most of the time Klopp picks the best 11 available and with our centre back situation he hasn’t trusted Tsimikas as it may weaken our defence even further. Constantly picking up injuries has not helped his situation.
Both sides of the argument have merit. You are right when you say that if he was good enough, he would have forced the issue by now. At this point in time, he simply isn’t, particularly when it comes to defending as a team. He has looked suspect in the rare cases that he has featured.
On the other hand as others have stated, Klopp would have been far more willing to give him time in a settled backline that could cover for him. The opposite has been the case though. In order for Klopp to give minutes to Tsimikas he would have to drop Robertson, his most consistent performer for yet another defender who would learn on the job when most games are a struggle and there’s zero room for error.
Minamino did well in training, and Klopp spoke about him being close and ready for the first eleven, but when it came down to selection, his lack of height prevented Klopp from using him more.
Reckon there’s probably some attribute lacking in Tsimikas and Klopp hasn’t been able to trust him over the last 3 months since his return to the bench.
With Andy looking in need of a rest (and will be sorely needed in the return against R Madrid), Klopp will probably dismiss his concerns about Tsimikas and give him a long awaited run out.
[quote=“RedArmada, post:155, topic:92, full:true”]
Both sides of the argument have merit. You are right when you say that if he was good enough, he would have forced the issue by now. At this point in time, he simply isn’t,
By that token… You could also say Robertson was not good enough back then because he didn’t actually challenge Moreno and force the issue… Robbo had to wait for an injury to get his chance.
What I like about Tsimikas from what little I have witnessed to date… he seems like a guy that can dribble to the by-line and pull the ball back across goal…
Anyone ever seen Robbo do that…? No didn’t think so…!
This guy, for his patience alone besides committing to LFC, deserves a run of games to see what he has in his locker… Robbo’s impact/performances seem to be getting more diluted by the game… he needs a full summers rest IMHO…
I don’t think anyone at the time expected Robertson to come in the side and perform as well as he did, Klopp included. So yes, Moreno was getting ahead of Robertson because it was wrongly believed that he wasn’t ready. Moreover, Moreno was a poor defender and a mediocre player overall. Robertson on the contrary, is one of the pre-eminent left backs in the world. Dislodging him was never going to be an easy task for Tsimikas, not even with him in the worst form of his Liverpool career.
And for the record Robertson has got to the byline plenty of times when he isn’t running on fumes.
Wrongly? So you don’t believe Klopp actually works with players and gets them up to speed before he puts them in the team.
Not what I said. Klopp brought Robertson up to speed faster than he realised.
I did! 
Oh sorry I just read it wrong.
I thought he looked sharper today.