I think it was specifically Fabinho because it was a DM stopgap. Didn’t we get outbid by Chelsea for a couple of players at the time?
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He is already on the managers banner mate. He won the league. One of the big two gets you on there.
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Don’t believe he would start the season if our malaise continues at all.
We bought Mac Allister fairly early in the window, then Dom came in almost at the same time as Hendo went. Fabinho went a couple of days later - all around early July
Then we had all the faff with Caicedo in early August, which dragged on for about a week. After that collapsed we brought in Endo in mid August, and then the final signing was Gravenberch who we signed on 1st September.
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You do realise who stand in 3rd place ATM, don’t you? 
Yes, but just because they are United, we shouldb’t have to pretend they haven’t been in decent nick since Carrick took over.
My point is that it’s simple to look at the top of the league and teams around 2nd to 6th stuggling and conclude that the league is shit. It’s the strength of the teams 7th to 17th that is the reason why!
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You literally just stated “the system Slot has reverted to” which is exactly my point.
Hughes openly talked about how Slot played in a very similar style and approach to Klopp and therefore there wouldn’t be a large change for the players to get used to. Secondly we were told that Slot was used to a fair amount of transfers in and out and was very good at getting any new players integrated into his set up.
It’s the main train of thought behind having the sporting director set up like we have now - mainly so if we have to change the head coach we wouldn’t have to go out and buy a load of players just so the head coach can use the tactics he wants.
Therefore if we stick to those principles we shouldn’t need to be doing what Man United have been doing since Fergie retired. They’ve continuously changed management and then needed to go out and buy players to fit his game plan instead of being able to work with the players he has to get them raised to be a winning team.
It showed through the first half of last season. Slot only made minor tweaks to how Klopp had set up. Then coincidentally around the time we played PSG Slot seemed to try and move away from the approach that was obviously working. From the start of this season we’ve drifted even further away from that approach and look where it’s gotten us.
We went for Slot because of his style of play and because he can work with who he has got to create a team that will fight for the big trophies. Then Slot turns around and decides that he’s going to take a different approach and now needs a ridiculous amount of new players (we signed a lot of players last summer and it’s looking likely that we might need to do something similar this coming summer).
So if Slot now wants to play a completely different way it negates the first reason given by Hughes. Then Slot says he doesn’t have the players needed to be able to for his set up to work then that’s negated the second reason Hughes talked about.
Regardless I don’t think it can be argued against that Slot has changed how we are approaching games quite a bit but unfortunately the changes have had us playing significantly worse over a substantial period of time.
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I disagree with this. What has happened in my opinion is teams have become very tactically astute and organised. Plus players have become athletes.
That has given rise to tactics and opportunities for all teams to get a result, but the overall skill level, and certainly for me, the spectacle of the game has declined remarkably. I do not enjoy teams playing percentages related to scoring opportunities created from corners etc.
In the same way, rugby has become a game of chess but is dominated by power. In some ways, skill doesn’t actually matter anymore, provided you are organised, and very powerful.
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I think it’s a bit of a chicken and egg discussion as to whether Slot has moved away from the similarities he had with Klopp that got him the job, or whether he has had to move away because of the players he has.
I think a lot of our issues this season are in the forward wide positions, where we have lost a huge amount of width, and our ability to press from the front. We can moan about the gaps in midfield, and some players in the middle could have done more. But a big reason why our previous midfields were so effective at winning the ball, was because the attackers were pressuring and and harrying mistakes into the oppositions passing out. I’m not sure Gini and Hendo are winning the ball high up the pitch if Firmino and Mane are allowing the opposition to play the ball into midfield under no pressure.
On the left we have lost Diaz and Jota and Nunez, who could both do a job wide, but also were incredibly aggressive pressers. None of the forward players we’ve bought are known for pressing, although Wirtz will have a bit of a go.
The idea that PSG is the model for us is a bit bizarre, as they aren’t exactly slouches when it comes to playing wide and using a press.
So I think either Slot has told Hughes that he doesn’t want width and pressing, and he is going to do it all through the middle with his players standing off the defenders (which seems unlikely). Or Hughes has told Slot that this is the direction the recruitment is going, and he needs to to make it work (which also seems unlikely) or - which I think is the likeliest scenario - the pair of them have operated opportunistically, looked at really good players that they thought they could get hold of and backed themselves to somehow make it work, and why wouldn’t it work? They just won the league, they are obviously geniuses and more than a little high on the smell of their own farts.
So I don’t see it really as any one person’s fault. I think the whole operation has just gone wrong, and a handful of people share culpability. Hughes and Slot especially.
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I think we are saying the same thing. What I mean is that there are no gimmes, even as you head into the lower reaches of the league. The quality of the football is awful, but teams are hard to beat.
I remember under Benitez, if we were playing a team in the bottom third of the league inbetween two champions league ties, he’d rotate half the team and get a result. There is no way we could play Leeds or Forest and play a heavily rotated team. We’d get turned over.
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That’s an almighty problem then.
The money is already spent and the players are already here. How do we fix it? Even if we replace Slot and Hughes, the players are still here. We HAVE to get at least one wide forward. What happens to the narrow forward line then? Where does Wirtz fit in?
FFS where did that come from.
All I said is that imo the quality has fallen, particularly of the ‘top’ teams. We are a fucking good example as are Chelsea. Arsenal are great either and who knows if Man Shitty are really improved?
I got to fergie and Manure and have up.
You lost me I haven’t mentioned any of those things you bring up and haven’t a clue what your going on about. It certainly hasn’t anything to do with here and now.
In any case I’ve been calling for a dedicated DM so much over so long, except when we had Fabinho, we definitely need some positive physicality in midfield compared to what we have.
So I’m right!
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We literally just did on Saturday. Most would expect us to start 4 players tonight who were on the bench against Fulham. With the Mo question it could even be 5. And this from a manager who has been criticized for how little he rotates
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Well he shouldn’t but if he is here in August I really don’t expect a great start to the season and he will probably be gone as quick as Rodgers. The issue is who is then available.
Because if they continue to play like this then it’s relegation form.
Did he? I suppose a bit, if you think Jones, Ngumoha, Frimpong and Gakpo are in there to protect his big hitters.
That is a response to a notably different point than the one I made
Kirkez, Grav, Mac, and Hugo all started on the bench. We don’t know the line up yet but It would be quite a surprise for any of those 4 to not start tonight. That represents a significant shake up in the selection comapred to the players Slot has most relied on.
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Houllier was more a visionary than a manager really, listening to him talk about football is fascinating.
I’d take him back in a heartbeat over what we currently have, and he’s been dead 6 years.
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I have heard this. A good friend of mine I played with in youth football somewhat unexpectedly climbed through the coaching ranks. He became really well regarded at the behind the scenes coaching stuff. He was one of the first people putting together coaching structures across an entire club with a view to having a coherent approach across all levels. I think he is Technical Director for the FAW now and he has some advisory role with UEFA and so goes to all the big coaching events. Anyway, the point of this is Houllier is the best speaker he has ever heard at these things and gave one in the mid 00s that utterly transformed his understanding of the game and how to game plan. I think it was something to do with the “death of formations.”
Anyway, my point was not meant as a slight on Ged. It was a point that in our recent history, when things have been identified as firmly enough on the downslope qualifying for the CL has not been enough to save the job of a well liked person
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