Is there a controversy with transgender athletes competing in Mens sports? Genuine question, never heard of it, but that does’t mean it has never happened. It seems like women’s sports is the big loser here (well not anymore).
How many transgender athletes have competed in mens sports, and won anything? No Jenner winning the Olympic’s doesn’t count smart ass.
That’s absolutely the level of the debate though. But then it seems to be the 21st century way, that everyone feels they have the right to an opinion on things they don’t understand.
That’s quite the shithouse use of inverted commas, there.
You might have a problem with her competing, but there is no need to sink to that level.
Yes, by the way. Her. That’s what she wants. We don’t have the right to disrespect her by refusing to acknowledge her gender.
If that’s the level in here it wasn’t put there by @Semmy who never suggested anything of the sort. No offence but that comment from @Limiescouse was a classic strawman and something I didn’t expect from him.
“She” still has the twig and berries. At what point during the transition do you change the pronoun? when the person decides to switch? Starts hormone therapy? Completes hormone therapy? Changes genitalia? Does “she” still produce sperm? How can a “she” still produce sperm?
For the record. I couldn’t give two shits what other people do with their lives… That’s their prerogative. This is just discussion.
I am not sure if that comment is aimed at people here? Are opinions not welcome if those offering seem less informed? And I mean the ‘seem’ part of that question.
Regarding @Limiescouse comment that you mentioned here…that isn’t really a reasonable way to engage in the debate?
Excuse me, but the person in question made a bunch of comments about the difference between male and female anatomy and posted a video of a trans athlete as a evidence of this resulting in trans women having a competitive advantage. It is entirely appropriate to remind people that medicall transitioned trans women are not interchangeable with cis men.
Its entirely unnecessary. Its at best a superior comment to denigrate the argument being posited. Even if they argument or format of the argument is something you disagree with the response is unnecessary.
You and I clearly draw a different line, and Im cool with that. So if you want to allude to me acting like a prick, Im cool with that, but the comment I was defending myself from was that it was a strawman. It wasnt.
We draw a different line.
You asked me to explain a comment much earlier in the debate, which I did in fairness. You didn’t respond, which is fair enough. Your view was that I was conflating the issue of social vs medical transitioning. I wasn’t and explained on a couple of occasions as such.
I think the comment you made concerning men tucking their dicks between their legs and pretending to be women is a put down in a reasonable debate. It reduces the debate, and as I said comes across as superior.
I couldn’t care less if it is a strawman or not.
Well, it was presenting a supposition to argue against that nobody had made.
1970’s GDR women’s swim team. the first trans athletes in the Olympics, only it wasn’t voluntary.
It’s not. It’s a general comment at the state of the debate around the transgender issue, which on the whole consists of people who think that transgender women are men who had their cock lopped off or tuck it away.
Well, if someone thinks that is what a transgender woman is, then I can totally understand why they would think it not fair to let them compete against women.
As @Limiescouse has said, the process of transition is not just surgical. It’s also hormonal, and that absolutely has an effect on things like aggression, muscle mass, strength etc.
I don’t know where the right place for the pendulum to settle is on transgender people in competitive arenas. But these kind of generalisations and half baked opinions aren’t helpful.
On a different note, I find the use of inverted comma’s when describing someone’s gender a shithouse thing to do. At best it’s unkind and unfair and insensitive. At worst it’s bigotry. Let’s not do it here please.
My comment that has been pulled out as being unreasonable and a strawman, was a direct response to someone justifying the unfairness of it by comparing the athletic potential of cis men and cis women.
Ii have not used inverted commas when describing gender in this thread.
I don’t understand your making that point in resonse to me.
Edit…
I am fully aware of the social, hormonal and surgical processes required for transition.
sure thing. Then maybe you’ll address the question I posed earlier about transgender. Is the only requirement for officially changing your pronoun from he to she a public announcement of intent? At what point of the process does that become recognized in society?
As I have stated before, I couldn’t give two shits what people do with themselves. That’s their prerogative.
they’re talking to me…but for some reason feel it unnecessary to clarify that.
You really don’t get it do you?
I suggested that your comment was unnecessary. In a putting yourself at the head of the table manner. I am fairly sure that anyone contributing to this thread is well aware of what is meant by transitioning.
If I had transitioned after I went through puberty I would have been good enough to compete internationally at a number of sports, despite not being near that level as a bloke. That massively distorts the competitive environment for female, and only female, athletes where success is relative to physical ability.
this may be one of the best things I’ve read in this thread so far. and it’s 100% spot on.
the issue gets cloudy when (non-binary) who are looking to be accepted into society as unique individuals want to take that next step into binary situations and it’s quite simply not that black & white / yes & no kind of situation.
