and I was fairly ridiculed for posting a video to that same effect, of a transgender runner at 186cm being able to stride over the shorter 30in NCAA hurdles (36" for men) much easier that the shorter CIS female competitors.
Because my video was anecdotal…
It’s because…science.
In my experience, anecdotal evidence is always valid 
Yes, I know.
Yes. Because it’s the kind and decent thing to do, and absolutely no-one is compromised in any way by using the words she and her to describe someone who wishes that.
Their ‘view’ has fuck all to do with anything. It’s literally none of their business, and if someone wants to define themselves as female then anyone who denies them that and insists on calling them male and using male terminology, isn’t expressing their view - they are just being a cunt.
I took offence at you putting the word she in inverted commas. You did this to signify that the person you were referring to is really a man. They aren’t. You have a problem with them competing against women and feel it isn’t fair. That’s understandable, and you might be right.
But let’s be kind and decent, and let’s not be cunts. We might be about to decide, as a society, that athletes who were born as male shouldn’t be allowed to compete against athletes who were born female. If that’s the case, a significant number of people will no longer be able to take serious part in a sport they love. The very least we can do is be kind about it.
I think it is important to note that for many sports at this time, the transition required for someone born male to compete as female (or vice versa) is neither surgical, nor hormonal. While it often is, self-identification is the only requirement in more cases than not. Testosterone levels come into play only at the higher levels.
It has. BBC had Fallon Fox as a guest to talk about the fairness of FINA rules. That would be the Fallon Fox who spoke about enjoying fracturing a woman’s skull in a bout.
It’s a hard one.
Should we allow people who were born men to step into a ring with women and try to do as much brutal physical damage to them as possible for entertainment purposes, or would we prefer that to should be limited to other women.
Or maybe we should just not let anyone do that?
Fair enough, I am not a fan of MMA either.
However, the fact that it was not disclosed to the opponent is horrifying.
The combat in a ring or cage is the most visceral demonstration of the differences between someone who has been through male puberty and someone who hasn’t, but those differences don’t melt away simply if there’s no combat element.
Sure is. I’m just pointing the irony of expressing an ethical concern about transgendered athletes in a sport in which the objective is to absolutely fucking leather someone until they are unconscious.
The thing that that happened in MMA with the transgendered competitor was horrific and shouldn’t have been allowed. But then again, everything that happens in MMA is horrific and shouldn’t be allowed.
There is a very easy way to get rid of the transgender issue in MMA, and that’s to simply get rid of MMA.
I dont know much about MMA, but dont they have weight classes similar to say boxing ?
You would never see say feather weight boxer, fight a heavy weight boxer.
They do have weight classes. How athletes move around between them should be considered and I don’t know if the boundaries are similar to boxing where there are many classes but both will have been through a pre bout weigh in
I have enjoyed reading the good comments in this thread. A few tetchy ones here and there, which is to be expected on a difficult subject, but I think most are trying to discuss in good faith and find a way forward.
I don’t have a lot to add, but anecdotally, my daughter and her trans friend just left the house. They are really good friends. Her trans friend was a girl when they first got to know each other early in school, but transitioned to a boy along the way. It came at a social price, and I am bloody proud of my daughter for being a good friend, and standing up to the twats who made it all a miserable experience in some formative school years.
It was one of my proud moments as a dad when my daughter had a party for her friend’s 18th birthday at our house and used her social capital to fill the house with friends and laughter and love.
I don’t know anything much about trans issues, but I do know that we have got to be loving human beings, or we are all in the shit!
My very unqualified opinion is:
Trans rights - all for it.
Trans rights in sport - much murkier waters.
I would probably be in favor of banning trans athletes from competing with cis athletes, due to likely competitive advantage. I would hold it under review though, to make sure we got more data points from good science along the way, as I know this is still in its infancy.
That ridiculous, why on earth do you need to have your appendice removed before a final?
Which is a pointless addition and the subject of a completely different debate.
The post you answered was an illustration of the difference between trans and cis women in sport. A brutal one and one which is outside of sporting norms.
But still an example.
The moment a person decides to change their pronouns, on their journey is the moment I respect their right to do so.
It doesn’t mean its the time for them to actively engage in the domains of their chosen gender.
This is a process.
And despite some of the discussion to date, there is scientific evidence which suggests that equity is compromised when trans women compete in sport. Until evidence is determined to the contrary we should surely consider the rights of those competing in womens sport without that advantage?
That is not disrespectful or exclusionary. It is about fairness.
[quote=“Quicksand, post:159, topic:2867, full:true”]
The moment a person decides to change their pronouns, on their journey is the moment I respect their right to do so.
It doesn’t mean its the time for them to actively engage in the domains of their chosen gender.
This is a process.[/quote]
Good. So you agree that putting their chosen pronouns in inverted commas is a shitty thing to do.
And that’s not much different to what I’ve said. Competition in sport is really hard, and I honestly don’t know what the answer is.
I do think people are sometimes a bit guilty of over simplifying things, by focussing on physical traits.
The Williams sister were 6”1 and much more powerful than everyone they were competing against. Should we have banned them?
Was this as a result of physical gains made during male puberty?
Serena’s 5’9"
I don’t think the puberty thing is a slam dunk.
I went through male puberty, and I’m 5”9 and slightly built. I wouldn’t be at a substantial advantage in most female sports.
Some people would be and some people wouldn’t.
What this actually highlights, in a way we rarely consider, is that sport is inherently unfair.
I was a goalkeeper at school. Bloody good one as well and I loved it. Until the day we moved to full size goals and I was told in no uncertain terms that I had no future there, and I was put on the wing. The kid who got my place in goal was half the keeper I was, but twice the size.