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It’s not, it’s a fact. Russia just makes it very easy for us to condemn them because they just don’t give a shit. While some countries are “if you don’t see it, it didn’t happen” Russia is a country I will never go back again and I hope Putin gets pull down one way or another, but to pretend other governments are not doing it in secret…

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You think that Germany or Sweden are comparable to Russia?


I have no specific thoughts on the 2 countries. All I said was SOME other countries. Just like there are snakes like common death adders who just look down right nasty and barbaric, there are snakes who look really nice on the surface like eastern corals but no less poisonous. This does not make Russia especially Putin any less barbaric or evil but just pointing out that there are some devils who have learnt to use beautiful things to dress up their evil.

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Which countries are you specifically referring too?

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Its naive to think that “other” countries don’t engage in torture and inhumane treatment of prisoners. Putin doesn’t give a flying fuck about rules of engagement and international conventions on such matters.

I am pretty sure that some countries who are bellyaching about the treatment of prisoners have the odd stain on their own records. That doesn’t negate the fact that the treatment of these man is barbaric and requires international sanction and intervention.
Like they are stopping the barbarism in Gaza. In Yemen. In Saudi.


The problem is that once you go down this ‘ah well, but others do it too’ route, you end up at ‘everyone’s the same’, which is exactly where all the nasty bastards want you to be. But, everyone isn’t the same. Some are worse than others.
Maybe no one is squeaky clean, but that doesn’t excuse the serious crimes of the worst totalitarian regimes.


The Russian regime doesn’t bother to hide what it’s doing to its own citizens, let alone to suspected terrorists. Putin is a ruthless dictator, who couldn’t care less. He is the law and he does as he pleases.

As corrupt and immoral some western individuals and governments may be, they still have to respect or at least appear to respect laws and regulations, because they know that they can’t do whatever they like. Just look at the backlash Abu Ghraib caused in America and why Bush’s administration ended up setting up a detention camp at Guantanamo, away from American soil.

You are right about avoiding the ‘everyone’s the same’ trap.

On the other hand, the US have handed plenty of ready-made examples for Russia to follow, and I suspect that’s what @gasband was referring to. Starting with lying in front of the world before invading Iraq and Aghanistan, opening and still maintaining the Guantanamo camp, where horrible tortures have taken place in the past, and of which nobody knows currently what is going on there. Later, the US instigated or at least allowed terrible wars to go on in the Middle East, for years. Then, they left the invaded or war-torn countries in a state of absolute turmoil, far worse than what was the case before they intervened. Until this week, they have supported Israel to the hilt in their genocidal attempt to recoup Gaza, in the name of ‘the right to defend themselves’.

Putin has been in charge of Russia throughout that time. Honestly, he’ll have taken note.

We know about Guantanamo, we know about Assange. What do Russian citizens know about Navalny and the Gulags?
We can discuss and criticise, we can demonstrate and protest, what freedom of speech exists in Russia?
I have criticised the US repeatedly here and in real life and I’m not naive about that country, but I’m happy I grew up on the western side of the iron curtain.


All governments are shit, it’s just that some are more shit.

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No one is excusing the crimes though.
Literally no one.

It goes without saying that the same applies for me. But I’m uneasy when still hearing the US telling the world that it’s them standing up for a more human world. I don’t believe that anymore.

They simply practice Realpolitik for what they perceive as their best interests, and if it implies warmongering or even worse things, then so be it. In that regard, there isn’t a big difference with other big countries imo, and it goes on since the end of WW2.

Turkey’s resurgent opposition trounces Erdogan in pivotal local elections


400 years history and culture up in flames.