I don’t think it is that unwarranted, and I don’t think it’s an appropriate discussion for you to continue this ongoing campaign to ridicule one particular poster for something she said a long time ago on another forum.
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I made no reference to that so don’t know the purpose of you referencing it now? Is it appropriate to throw shade on the entire contingent of male posters on the forum?
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Okay, that makes sense.
Nearly 35 years ago I had an orientation course with a police officer, ironic. He said always make your face visible in the presence of cops and ladies, specially in vulnerable hours and places.
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Maria, you certainly have my support, and I’m sure the support of most here. The sad reality is raising male consciousness is not going to end crimes like this. This guy is either a sick, violent predator or a man from her life who has killed her from jealousy or hatred. In either case the triggering mechanism is so embedded psychologically that it cannot be socialized away, at least not in my opinion.
It does seem cooler heads might have allowed the women to have their vigil, COVID be damned, but that’s not what the higher ups have ordered. From there blaming the rank and file police for hauling the women away (which they quite obviously did with more restraint than some of their American counterparts over the past summer) is a misplacing of blame, just as painting the greater police force with this murder (which you have not done, though others [not here] seem to have) is harmful and wrong. @Kopstar makes a decent suggestion, though I doubt there are enough female officers alone to do the job.
I am curious as to where all this “consciousness raising” is going to lead us. We’ve all seen how difficult it is to end the racial harassment of Black footballers. From my perspective it isn’t seeming to make much impact. In fact, it may even be embittering the racists more, if that’s possible. Same for metoo and other movements against sexual harassment. Will any of it change male behavior? I’m a bit dubious about it, sorry to say.
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Good post, mate, and your last paragraph hits the nail bang on the head. You can never put an end to shocking behaviour and actions because, wherever you go in this world, you will find sick and depraved individuals.
And, human nature being as it is, that will sadly never change.
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Maria wasn’t throwing shade on anyone. If anything she was saying she felt a bit let down that male members of the group were focussing on the illegality of the protest rather than the illegality of a woman being snatched off the streets, raped and murdered. And a suggestion from one poster, that this was just a bad apple in the police force (I know a few female environmental campaigners who’ll disagree with that).
It’s a bit like when Floyd George was murdered, and the mostly white commentary at spent weeks obsessing over the damage to a statue.
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Do you have any thoughts on how to tackle it then? I don’t think a situation where 50% of the population can’t go out without being terrified they’re going to be attacked by the other 50%.
A good start might be to attack the institutional sexism of the police force.
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Maria is obviously a lot closer to recent events and is also speaking from experience.
Some posters on here need to walk a mile in her shoes(especially at night), before dismissing her claims of concern
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Aww, El Dorado,
Thank you so much for your kind words 
, it really means alot, not just to me, to women in general, that we are not alone. We don’t want to blame the man for anything or everything. Hopefully, there will be some constructive dialogue so everyone, feels safe at night, not just women.
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Everything has to start with a deterrent… Even the police are frustrated in the lenient legal system the way it is… Make the penalty fit the crimes
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Me and my partner were talking about this last night actually, her view is the problem is primarily due to the inbalance of men and women at the top of any particular tree, business, political etc. She is of the opinion women have far more empathy and less ego than men (obviously there will be exception to the rule). Look at our current leader, has written racist remarks multiple times and is a complete bigamist himself… That emboldens the weak, its a deep rooted toxic culture which social media has a huge part to play.
In terms of the police, it’s far too male dominated and thus lies the problem.
Her heroine is Jacinda Ardern, and based on the last 12 months I can’t but not agree with her that more people in power like Jacinda would be the start of equality, which despite a lot of noise still just isn’t there.
For what we will do as a family it will be simple, raise our son well.
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I want front line police and fire services to be mainly men. Simple physics.
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Jesus wept man, you are part of the problem.
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You’re burgled at 2am, you call the police. 3 x 5ft ladies turn up to confront the 6ft male burglars.
You’re in a burning building and need rescuing, the firewoman can’t pick you up because she’s too small.
Men are bigger and stronger. That’s not up for discussion. I want that strength available when desperately needed.
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Yes, but also women’s reports of harassment, threatening behaviour, stalking, and actual sexual assault are all too often dismissed or waved away.
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I don’t think you’ll find a woman that doesn’t have a handful of stories of being attacked. My wife has been grabbed from a man hiding in an alleyway at Place de la Republique in Paris of all places. Another time a more serious confrontation with a drunk guy while coming home from work in Lyon after we had met. Then all the unwanted attention in the early teenage years ( really are a lot of sickos, particularly in northern France!)
These sorts of events are not something you simply brush off after 5 minutes. There is a sense of fear for days after. As a man I’m not sure I could possibly relate to that.
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Sandsoftime,
In my day, we didn’t have mobile phones to call someone, only the phone box near a station or a shop. The only thing I had for protection was a small can of Elnett hairspray and I was always aware of my bearings. I have been lucky, I got away, the gods were with me those days, some women haven’t been so lucky.
My cousin had an ex patient stalking her for 3 years. This was in the early 1970s. he knew where she lived, he knew where relatives (my parents) lived, her work and even got into the house whilst she was at work. He was a nutjob, he kept saying she was his wife. The police couldn’t do much, but warn him.
I really appreciate it that you understand our concerns, thanks alot.
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The system is broke M…
Time moves on too quickly with too much happening for the police to investigate the complaints/crimes thoroughly enough…!
Back to the drawing board to prioritise crime and seek the budget necessary to police it properly
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About the vigil, it’s all about optics regardless of lockdown rules etc. Given the context, the police should have negotiated with the organisers and agreed safe arrangements for these people to have a dignified vigil without any confrontation.
About the general problem of male attacks on women, that’s a tough one. As a very small example with such a massive impact, only recently, the media have begun to stop (reluctantly) making images of topless women a daily norm in the top selling 'news’papers that men buy. The male psyche is programmed to see women as an object. Taken to it’s extreme, it ends up in violence.
Until we can work out and implement some kind of re-programming, maybe we should be looking at male curfews or something like that in the areas where the problem is worse.
Men need to be prepared to put in the good work, like calling out friends and colleagues who are talking shit about women.
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We have to face fact… that being, nothing much is going to change in the short term, if ever.
Harassment of women and much much worse has been happening to them for decades…
Take Suzy Lamplugh for eg… vanished from the face of the earth, not a trace left.
Best we can hope for in the immediate future is to bring and maintain awareness to the general public of this particular danger, especially to the women whom feel most vulnerable.
Last nights vigil was a prime example for an opportunity of bringing these sinister dangers into the domain of everybody. It is such a shame that the police didn’t have the correct mindset to encourage and participate in a gathering of devotees to this particular cause.
Covid restrictions could have been tackled in a sensible manner, particularly when such a swell of emotion was always going to outweigh anything else
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