On the other hand, even at a club who plays twice a week, game days is only about 1/3 of the time you spend at work. For lots of professional footballers this is still work, and for a lot of managers there is no consideration for professionals being enabled to enjoy their work. Yes you can go somewhere else and play, but if the actual playing bit isnt very good, and the work is a soulless unenjoyable slog (think playing for Jose), why would you give up a second of being one of Klopp’s men?
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Also, considering how little we actually drew on our squad, and given the comments that the manager himself has made about being conservative with changing too much, I’m surprised that people think that nothing short of incredible performances would have seen him play a more regular role.
I’m loath to draw any conclusions about any player from the season gone past, given these circumstances. Furthermore, Origi’s career path has never been one of regular, linear improvement. It’s very much more of the classic 4 steps forward, 2 steps back. I’m guessing the article that sparked this discussion was actually reflective of the club’s intent in the sense that he’s a great squad player to have around, but he’s not irreplaceable. If the current situation doesn’t change then the management won’t be unhappy with him sticking around and playing a part, but he could just as easily be another face. I do expect that unless something drastically changes with him in the next couple of seasons, we won’t be the last club he plays for.
Sorry but if we’d had Mbappe instead of Origi do you really think they’d have kept playing out of form misfiring Firmino and Mane for game after game when we were losing and drawing because we couldn’t score enough? He makes those comments as much to excuse the squad players for not being good enough.
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I think a better example would have been, if we got Jota in January instead of in the summer, would he have played as much? I doubt it.
Even then, again I would doubt that Mbappe would get the nod ahead of Firmino and Mané, especially since we’ve seen how our team is a complete system, if the defence is already wobbly we are unlikely to try to destabilise it further by shaking up the front.
It’s more like 1 step foward 4 steps back.
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But you just used an example of how we used a new guy plenty instead of sticking to being Conservative? Jota proves Klopp WOULD have used the other squad options, if they were good enough that he wanted to. Because he did. When they were good enough.
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Did you read the context? Mané and Firmino dropped off a cliff after the new year, by which time Jota had already adapted well to our team and proven himself.
Or is context just too much for you to handle?
If he gets a new contract on some important / cult goals it will mean we won the CL or title again.
IMO… certainly worthy of another contract if he delivers the goods again! I can live with that!
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Can you imagine what a story that would be? The man whose career was built solely on massive goals once in a while, possibly the very definition of a luxury player?
Why was Origi not here longer than Jota? If we’d had a better squad player than Origi we wouldn’t have been scared to switch things up and be less Conservative because why would that player have had no game time till the limited period you want to narrow it down to? If we had a better player than Origi or Origi himself was good enough to use they would have played plenty, like Jota did.
I think you’re getting one key thing wrong. Jota wasn’t brought in as a squad player, like Origi is currently. He was brought in explicitly to be a future replacement for one of our front three, which is obvious given his price tag. I think it’s a bit wild to think that anyone who would be an Origi replacement would have been starting regularly.
I have no idea what this even means.
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If Origi was good enough he would also be that future replacement type. You’re bending over backwards to avoid the simple reality. The likes of Origi weren’t played because they weren’t good enough. Some new/young defenders may have missed time such as Williams and Tsimikas due to trying to keep some stability but Origi has been here years, he’s integrated, he’s just not good enough to use even when Firmino and Mane are out of form.
I think you’re discounting how much Firmino and Mane contribute to our defensive play. You’re also presuming that I wouldn’t prefer a Mbappe over Origi if all other things were the same. However, what we have in Origi is a player who is relatively cheap, settled, and who has the ability to perform well when called upon even if it is rarely done.
The narrative seems to be that he’s been rubbish since getting his new contract, but the numbers don’t lie. He was much better the season when we won the league vs when we won the Champions League, even though he was terrible (by his own standards) last season attacking-wise. However, he also started making some improvements in his defensive game last season (to the point where he was preferred to be kept over Minamino, who was wanted by our own players because of his pressing).
I don’t think he’s indispensable, far from it. I just disagree with the amount of vitriol that he gets.
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No we don’t. That’s why he’s rarely called upon.
Origi is not a replacement for either of the front 3 because he is not this type of player. I’ve mentionned that earlier in the thread. You expect him to twist and turn and dribble like Mane or Firmino? The guy is almost as tall as klopp
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Let me quote myself from the other thread:
“Divock Origi’s equivalent minutes per goal contribution in all the seasons he’s been with us: 110.5 (2015/16, 5 goals 1 assist in 663 minutes), 132.5 (2016/17, 7 goals 4 assists in 1457 minutes), N/A (2017/18, out on loan to Wolfsburg), 91.5 (2018/19, 3 goals 1 assist in 366 minutes), 100.4 (2019/20, 4 goals 3 assists in 703 minutes), N/A (2020/21, 0 goals, 0 assists in 181 minutes).”
That, in my opinion, is the biggest reason why he can’t really succeed in a starting role here. He has fantastic speed, but terrible acceleration, so within our play, he’s often too slow to be able to press that effectively, and to take advantage of some of the little gaps that our play forces other teams to give us, the way that Mane and Salah do. Firmino may not have the same speed, but is definitely a lot more nimble. Changing our play to fit him is not worth it, considering that it would compromise too much for too little gain. Yet, people are always calling for a plan B, and he is a good one.
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He’s not a good plan b, he’s not even a good plan x.
He’s 26, should be in his prime and yet he’s never seemed like a possible starter for us unless in an emergency. Yes, he scored a couple of important goals by being in the right place at the right time, but he’s also spent hours wandering around the pitch looking lost.
Would any one of our rivals want him?
His level is a lower mid table club like Newcastle or Southampton, not us.
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For me Div needs to know he is due a run of games.
Just be a shit position to know that you can play outta this world and still not be a starter
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2015/16 and 2016/17?
You could say that about so many other strikers as well. Mané and Firmino for much of this past season, even.
The same is also true of many of their squad players, would we ever want them? It just so happens that in terms of the way we play, he offers a passable alternative for the perhaps 400-800 minutes that he would play with us, wherein we need someone more direct, to just do that being in the right place at the right time.
It’s also noteworthy that in terms of numbers, he also outperforms Jota and Bobby. Leaving out the disastrous past season (9 goals 7 assists in 2852 minutes), Bobby has had, over the same seasons I mentioned earlier with Origi, 110.2 (2015/16, 10 goals 8 assists in 1983 minutes), 146.1 (2016/17, 11 goals 10 assists in 3068 minutes), 126.3 (2017/18, 15 goals 7 assists in 2778 minutes), 137.9 (2018/19, 12 goals 7 assists in 2620 minutes), 176.7 (2019/20, 9 goals 8 assists in 3004 minutes).
Meanwhile, Mané joined us one season later than those two, but for comparison’s sakes, he had 112.35 (2016/17, 13 goals 7 assists in 2606 minutes), 129.9 (2017/18, 10 goals 7 assists in 2208 minutes), 126.8 (2018/19, 22 goals 2 assists in 3086 minutes), 102.0 (2019/20, 18 goals 9 assists in 2755 minutes). For the disastrous past season, he had 148.0, from 11 goals 8 assists in 2812 minutes.
Apart from this past season in which he barely played, Origi has put up numbers better than or equal to two of our favourite players. How shite can he be if that’s the case? Or, is it a case of post-hoc justification, that we like or dislike certain players so we have already formed our impressions of them and just use any means we can to praise or discredit them?
He is never going to be able to deliver that ultra-mobile, constantly moving performance we get from our starters, nor is he going to show on his face the effort that he puts in. What we do know is that he went from being behind even Dominic Solanke, to being rewarded with a new contract (which although well-timed, I doubt had much to do at all with the iconic goals, and more to do with his performance in matches and training since the start of the season).
Of course, in an ideal world, we would upgrade on him. But the pool of available players, and our current team, means that this upgrade is a very low priority.
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