Never a fan of the narrative of going down the line of holding it against players just sitting on their contracts. They’re perfectly entitled to do so. Would rather Div was sold ofcourse, but if he stays I’d expect him to give his all in training. If he stays till he’s a free agent I’ll hold no grudges. More disappointed that he never lived up to the hype and potential.
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Well if it is the injury like so many believe it has to be a mentality thing. It wasn’t a serious injury and can’t still have physical implications just mentality ones.
I mean, his overall records don’t show him doing too badly. I’m sure that if we didn’t think he was up to snuff he would have been shuffled out the door a long time ago, instead of being given that contract renewal.
I think one problem that he faces on here, as opposed to with the coaching staff, is that people seem to want every player to be this incredible genius who can do something magical, but sometimes you just need cogs in the machine, players who turn up and just do what they’re there for. And in terms of goal contributions, especially with the context of it being off the bench, he has delivered it in both of our successful seasons. He was terrible last season, but I think very few players come out of that season with any credit, and more importantly, he only got 360 minutes throughout the whole season. Mostly just with 5 to 10 minutes off the bench.
Furthermore, he’s never going to be that player that “looks” good. Right now the closest player we’ve had to him in recent years is pretty much 2018-19 Sturridge. Does a job, comes on really late if at all, but is there when called on, and has something to contribute. More importantly, he is presumably not anywhere close to being one of our top earners, and is settled.
I’m not sure why so many are so eager to kick him out in favour of some flavour of the month who would more than likely come with much higher wage demands. And oddly enough, these are usually the same arguing in favour of Phillips staying, despite his more obvious limitations, and not even being that much younger than Origi.
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Or maybe, that injury just took him out of his stride at the moment when he could have developed something to be even better? It wasn’t something that affected him permanently physically, but it’s very arguable that something could have clicked and he could have benefited from the extra game time at a vital point as a 20 year old that people keep saying that we ought to give the likes of 24 year old Harry Wilson for his development.
Definitely, the narrative around his career would be completely different if he’d continued on to even perhaps win us the Europa League that season.
Sturridge always looked good.
It’s not a bad thing to want our squad to be as strong as possible. We’ve all followed Origi’s career at LFC and have experienced the highs and lows. There’s a lot of affection for him as he’s clearly a nice guy, and he gave us some great memories, but none of that means that we should hold on to him at this point in time. He is at his peak and should be playing regularly at a club at his level. We know what he is capable of and he isn’t going to improve. Our forward three are all around 30 now and we need to be looking to the future. Origi is not the future.
Your loyalty is admirable, but everyone needs to move on for the good of the club and the player.
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Not in his last couple of seasons no. He often came on and looked exactly as lost as Origi does, and also managed to contribute magical moments, most notably against PSG. Apart from that, he contributed even less than Origi defensively, moves often broke down with him. Yet we were willing to forgive him for that because he didn’t play a lot, but not Origi?
And yet many of the vaunted players only a year younger than he is are going to improve?
I don’t think it’s a matter of loyalty, I think it’s more the matter of whether it makes sense for the club. If we had a shot at getting Mbappe or Haaland in, then it definitely makes complete sense, but for middling players who aren’t actually that good anyway, I don’t see the point unless we profit from it financially.
That’s not the sentiment I keep railing on about, it’s more the whole mindset or we need to move him on no matter what, at all costs, that he’s completely garbage, that any random player from the Championship could do better than him. The same mindset that sees players who have pretty much the same contributions as him rated so much higher, and sees players who are objectively much worse than him rated as good as or better than him. The same mindset that says that someone like Wilson should be kept and given a chance, but we needed to sell Origi 2 seasons ago because Wilson “is young and has potential” while Origi “isn’t getting any younger”. The same mindset that says that we should give players like Ox a chance because “he’s still young” but Origi is too old to improve?
As good as Jota has been at times, especially with that patch of good form before his injury, his numbers are pretty much similar to what Origi has contributed, on average, throughout his entire Liverpool career. I essentially just hate it when a narrative gets built, and people just ride on that bandwagon, instead of taking a cold hard look at reality. That the newest toy available on the transfer market is always better than what we have.
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Ok, we’re never going to agree. I just think we need freshening up and he needs a new challenge.
Sturridge always looked class, and capable of something special, even when he was in decline.
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I think you need to really think about what Jota has brought to the table for us in terms of overall contribution. Divock Origi was a serviceable player, but lets just admit what it is, last season he had took a significant step backwards in almost every opportunity he had to perform for the team. Its also a fact that our form took a drastic dip when Jota went down and Mane was in the absolute pits in terms of form.
That goal drought is a real thing , and that is why people buy options for the bench. Divock had 2 great seasons for us , but last season was a indication that its just not working out. I wouldnt say any old player would just come in and make life better. But if we want to compete, Origi needs to show he belongs in this squad during matches when he is given that chance. Based on when we saw him play he has not shown that, and hence we need to look at the market and see if we can bring in viable options. Obviously we are not going to spend 100 mil etc thats why the club looks at the championship or cheaper options. Are they infinitely better than Origi? Who knows? But the clubs recruitment policy is such that they always try to bring in players that they think can help in a variety of ways. Keeping a player too long when the manager has no faith in them is pointless, especially when your down 1-0 and you need a option to change the game from you and the coach has decided and is of the opinion you cant do what he needs to be done on the pitch.
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Oh I do think if we can find a player who would be a clear upgrade, he can go. I just don’t think that such a player is available out there at the moment.
This is what I mean by the mindset. You end up with player churn and high transaction costs, and for what? Just because we “feel” that things are “getting stale”.
This is what I mean by perception. Origi perhaps doesn’t have that perception just because he doesn’t shoot as much. He’s highly efficient with his shooting. Sturridge, as much as I loved him, tended to lose the ball in dangerous positions, or shoot unnecessarily at times.
Perhaps it’s also because I see the game more as a team game, rather than one where we should be relying on individuals to, as the cliché goes, create magic moments.
And what is this?
See this is where I have a problem, because the suggestion is that we should just work it out through the transfer market rather than through coaching. And it’s also ignoring the fact that he looked much better as the season progressed, and that also he had COVID early on in the season.
I agree on this, so I’m not too fussed if we actually do move him on. It’s mainly the fans that I’m railing on about. And specifically the amount of flak he gets, and how people are so quick to dismiss him for all the reasons I listed above.
I’m not sure he has no faith in Origi, considering when push came to shove, Origi still stayed. Each and every time.
Jotas ability on the ball coupled with his overall speed and then his eye for goal has been an asset in a season where we have been wasteful with our chances. On top of that , he seems to be able to interplay with Salah, Firmino or Mane depending on the line up of the day depending on who starts. Origi misplaces passes quite often and struggles to keep the ball at times, something that Jota while not perfect is infinitely better at doing. We just seem to move the ball well and there is no significant drop off in play when Jota is on the pitch in rotation with one of the front 3 in most games before he went down injured. Same cannot be said for Origi lately. I think Jota’s contribution to the flow of how we play and our style has been quite important.
How much coaching can be done for Divock at this stage of his career. Forget younger or older , its more a matter of how long can you hang onto a player and keep giving him the benefit of the doubt before you need to move on? His cycle at the club has ended, and regardless of whether you think there is no better replacement, then the club will have to gamble or try something or spend some money (the most unlikely action) to see if a fresh player can do what the manager wants. Thats why even now clubs are trying to buy talented players and move on players who they dont think can contribute.
Origi has stayed because he has caused no fuss and is ok being on the bench. Also because Edwards couldn’t find the right bid for him. Even now Leeds are rumoured to want to only pay 15 mil for him. I dont think Origi is as bad as that, he can be a perfectly functional striker in the right setup. So the club obviously dont want to sell on the cheap and lose out on potential profit that can be made.
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Now I’m not saying that Origi is better than Jota at what you just said either, but most of the time when he tends to lose the ball, they are often in similar situations to when anyone else who would otherwise be playing in his place be losing the ball. So it’s not too dissimilar necessarily. He is much less nimble/agile than Jota however, which I’d say is the main problem for him in our current system.
Except it’s quite rare that an unwanted player at one club goes on to another club at a similar level and does much better, unless they were playing in different styles to begin with. The whole idea of “a change of scenery” is overrated.
I disagree about coaching. For example, I don’t think the trio of Firmino, Mané, and Salah have remained stagnant with us in the last couple of years, particularly Salah, who has adapted pretty well towards playing in tighter scenarios, and contributing defensively a lot more. Similarly, Origi’s defensive efforts have improved much more in the most recent season especially. While he was absolutely shite at times when we had the ball, when we lost it, there would often be times when he would be almost the last man, nicking the ball when we needed it. This was a huge valid criticism of him in previous seasons, and quite clearly something he has worked on.
To address your specific point, it’s not even about “giving him the benefit of the doubt”. You basically want to keep a player until the cost of keeping him outweighs the benefits of doing so, especially when you have other options available. Quite clearly, until now, Origi has provided more benefits than the costs of doing so, which is why he remains at the club. It is no coincidence that we are more than happy to keep him unless another club meets our valuation of him. It is simply good business, and how I would expect the club to be run.
My whole point is that he’s not indispensable, but most people seem to treat him as though he’s toxic waste that we should get rid of immediately.
And that is highly valuable in its own way. He’s a settled player, who has quite a bit to offer, that doesn’t seem to be on high wages. So why not keep him around? It’s not like we have any huge opportunities to take advantage of that we need that squad spot for anyway.
I think that’s where we made the mistake or, being generous to Edwards, miscalculation. 15mil isn’t, by any stretch of imagination, only. It’s rather handsome for a player who clocked 536 mins last season.
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Do you really see him going to a club that is/will be in Champions League?
Why not? Obviously not in this country, but on the continent.
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Atletico 
They will pay almost as much you want.
Sturridge v Origi in their pomp is a non comparison.
2014 Suarez and Sturridge were almost unplayable, even Sturridge when he stopped running could always come up with a piece of skill that could lead to a goal, but his time was up and time for him to go, same as with big Div not offering enough to be kept on, still will be a cult hero when he leaves.
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The problem with Origi is that he has failed to reach his potential, and the primary reason appears poor application. He has the tools but seemingly lacks the desire, professionalism or commitment. That why he gets flak. It’s akin to Ryan Babel or Andy Carroll.
His team mates here laugh about him being lazy (10.30 into video)
There’s a similar video with Henderson and Milner laughing about Origi.
In his book he describe him as basically someone floating through life.
https://twitter.com/oliverkay/status/1202350379545120771?s=21
Always last into team meeting, unsure if he is listening or who we are playing next. But someone that has brought magic moments.
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You take pieces out of 3 sentences, stitch them together into one phrase just to make it fit your narrative.
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There are 4 paragraphs.
Paragraph 1 - He scored immensely important/big goals.
Paragraph 2 - He is polar opposite to Milner, relaxed, and always last in to meetings.
Paragraph 3 - He is intelligent and determined on the pitch , Incredibly relaxed without a care in the world off it (always losing stuff) “Planet Origi”
Paragraph 4 - Milners wondering if he is listening in the dressing room (only for him to produce a magic moment), and wondering if he realised what the score was in the Everton game.
Its told in a nice way. That he is a relaxing person to have around, that he makes life fun, that he scores important goals. But is undoubtedly gives insight into the negative aspects of his persona. As does the video of Firmino and Alisson laughing about Origi being lazy. Thats not agenda driven or stitching things together to fit a narrative.
As I said there are other videos from our players that dont shed him in a fantastic light.
I dont think its unfair to say Origi has not reached his potential. Physically I dont think we can simply blame that injury he got at Everton. When his team mates laugh about his approach, is it unfair to highlight it ?
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