General world politics chat

Almost every major IT company have offices in India (world wide).

The Indian agenda has always been to not get involved into factions or the Non Aligned Movement

Both the sides now are trying to court India with better deals etc. India is a huge market in terms of population for a lot of companies and that does play a part in any decision that either faction takes w.r.t India.

If I was to hazard a guess , It would take assurances from US/EU for Indiaā€™s energy security and some technology transfer (to reduce Indiaā€™s dependence on Russian Weapons) etc for India to essentially side with them.

The Indians almost always do defense deals on technology transfers (The latest Rafale deal being an aberration). Itā€™s just not the same as US selling a few F14 jets to Pakistan. India would generally demand (the Rafale deal aside) technology transfer as one of the key elements in the deals so as to produce their own in the future.

If say Lockheed Martin were to transfer technology to India for their jets etc. Thatā€™s what it would essentially take for India to choose a side

1 Like

Aircraft engine technology is an interesting topic for India. I think they are currently using the General Electric engines for Tejas and for a long time tried to go indigenous (through tech transfers presumably) but have largely failed to get a sufficiently competitive engine across the line.

Beyond aircraft engines, there seems to have been a bit more positivity around transfer of tech, namely regarding their rocket engines/motors and nuclear submarine reactors. The rocket enginesā€™ tech seems to have transferred (relatively) well/ok via France and Russia (depending on stage), as has the sub tech via Russia - India having 1 (possibly 2?) operational subs built (almost entirely) locally. Strangely I would have thought that the aircraft engine tech would have transferred much more readily but I guess where as rocket engines havenā€™t changed much (in design and performance), aircraft engines have evolved and are evolving still - thus the goal posts are continually shifting.

I cannot see the US (or the UK) handing over the tech for any of their prised projects so defence deals may be linked to advance guidance and detection systems - sort of like the deals they have with Israel.

Tejas engine did show some promise earlier on but was ditched by the govt almost entirely as probably the yardsticks have moved. You are right though that the earlier indigenous engine attempts failed miserably.

Its no surprise if India wants to push for a bigger say in world politics, for good or for bad. 2nd largest country in the world by population, highly intelligent people coming out from India, high percentage of literacy and many others. Itā€™s mainly really domestic issues that have prevented India from making a bigger splash. And I hope they do so; of course for the general good

1 Like

Macron 58.5%
Le Pen 41.5%
of votes expressed. Abstention of 28%, this is worrying if the trend continues Le Pen and her cronies will have increased chances in the future. We can see this in the results 5 years ago Macron stormed away with 66 to 34% win.

1 Like

Fixed it for you. Yeah itā€™s a disturbing trend. Then again, there are still those nearly twenty percentā€¦ le plafond de verre as they say.

In order to get herself elected, Le Pen will have to seriously soften her politics. Otherwise, sheā€™ll never go through. Letā€™s not forget that Macron is hugely unpopular at the moment, as heā€™s seen as the candidate of the big money, rightly so I might add.

In five years, she might have to face a new, more popular figure representing the republican values. Imo, if she wants to be elected, she has to negate her fatherā€™s heritage, completely and unequivocally. And she has to commit herself to the republican values. Otherwise, sheā€™ll remain a perennial also-ran.

Of course, if Macron fails completely during the next five years, and still decides to run for a third mandate, then the catastrophe could happenā€¦

I think its good that Macron acknowledges the fact that many voted for him simply to keep Le Pen out. And that he needs to do better. All the best to the French people!

1 Like

Not to mention, thatā€™s also underrating the chances of the French left. MĆ©lenchon might have even sneaked into the second round if the first round hadnā€™t come so soon, he significantly outperformed the opinion polls, with an upwards trend prior to the elections.

Much like the British left however, they actually need to come up with a convincing figure to lead the movement. Iā€™m not very well-informed on French politics, and whether MĆ©lenchon is viewed akin to Corbyn or as a more electable figure.

1 Like

Yeah my view is that this is a chance now for the left/green movement to put forward a fresh face. If they get this right, they could do much better than MĆ©lenchon, who has always had that uncompromising aspect in his politics which ultimately condemned him to miss out. For instance, the socialists offered him an alliance five years ago, with him as the figurehead, but he refused. The rest is history. A massive wasted chance to put forward a credible alternative to Macronā€™s applied neoconservatism. This year, he has again failed to form a large front among the left and ecologist movements, and it cost him again. So, heā€™s ripe for the retreat imo. A new figure is needed who can have a similar uniting effect on the left than Macron had on the right of the political spectrum. A fresh, untainted face, without too many old stories hindering him or her to seduce those on the fence, who this time have gone with Macron again, although they dislike him profoundly.

Did this really happen? What an idiot.

Yeah, he had that chance, but the socialists wanted him to change a few minor points in his political program, and he refused. As a result, the socialists went down the drain, and he was beaten by Le Pen for one or two percents. I found it idiotic at the time.

Also, heā€™s anti-EU, almost as much as Le Pen. That has driven off a lot of people who have sympathy for other aspects of his program. He was the only credible candidate in terms of ecology and renewable energy for instance. In that regard, itā€™s five years lost again, because Macron will do nothing bar promoting nuclear energy.

1 Like

Macron does take centrist positions quite a bit. Anyway , Rather him than Le Pen

I think it can miss the point to look at things like this election as a one off event where the bad outcome was avoided. Yes, that is part of the story, and Iā€™m relieved with the outcome, but I think the bigger story is the longer term trajectory this points to. What we now have to be on the look out for is the siphoning off of bits of what Le Penā€™s message was by more traditional candidates who can try to launder it into a more respectable version of the argument, but keeping the emotional pull that attracted a certain base to Le Pen. In many ways, that is the bigger threat because itā€™s got more of a chance of succeeding, in part because the press never seem to know how to deal with that sort of situation.

3 Likes

It really was no where near as simple as Hope makes out.
The socialists were dead and buried and Melenchon knew it. Also in the parlementary elections that would follow he would never get a majority, like Le Pen. So a coalition, something the ā€˜newā€™ system was invented to avoid.
Melenchon doesnā€™t want to share anything and certainly doesnā€™t want to dillute his program.
Well worth noting that he is the ā€˜headā€™ of a coalition of parties, only the Socialists, one of the Communist parties, and Greens refuse to join ā€˜himā€™. There is also Poutou but thatā€™s normal as heā€™s in another league to the others with his New Anticapitalist Party (the champion of the working class).

Melenchon is an intrigueing character. He is well liked amongst the populace, well educated ā€¦ . On the other hand within political circles he is described as a tyrant, uncompromising and power hungry.
Personally I can not see him as a President, he goes off on tangents too much. On the otherhand I think as a premier minister he would be good as he would keep ā€˜Theā€™ President in check. Of course he wouldnā€™t accept that he wants to be president.
Macron needs ministers to keep him in check but he has gone more and more to appointing yes men and itā€™s been going awry for some time.

I live in a region where the ā€˜uneducatedā€™ support Le Pen and the pseudo educated support Melenchon. Itā€™s impossible to discuss stuff with the 1st group however the second group will discuss everything and anything to the nth degree. Fascinating!

Hope appears to have a very different idea about French politics than me. Seems very mainstream i.e comes from Paris media which for me doesnā€™t give a good representation of whatā€™s going on. Iā€™ve read a few articles from British journalists where they are very affirmative about whatā€™s what yet just give official ā€˜partyā€™ lines. Some of them have lived in France a long time but donā€™t seem to have got to know anyone.

2 Likes

I know a few people in France, but of course, my view is one coming from the outside, mainly Swiss media. I gladly accept that my view was very simplified and didnā€™t acknowledge the actual complexity of the situation at the time, and generally re French politics (I didnā€™t want to start writing a hundred-pages essay about it :wink:).

However, I note that your main point is the same than mine. MĆ©lenchon is an uncompromising character, and that has hindered him to find a wider support for himself.

Just out of interest, how do you assess Macronā€™s performance during his first five years, in terms of real impact on peopleā€™s lives?

1 Like

Yes and no, if he had carried the socialist ticket in 2017 he would be dead in the water now, some compromises just should never be contemplated. He is an uncompromising politician yet his public demeanour can appear very different. As I am at it Iā€™ll also refute that heā€™s anything like Corbyn. :wink:

Yes however a lot of that was by chance. He has Thatcherite tendencies and likes to destroy certain groups. He tried destroying the ā€˜Gilets Jaunesā€™. Bizarrely his capitulation gave him the opportunity to offer a decent ā€˜Prime dā€™activityā€™ even if itā€™s calculation is completely fucked up people actually got a bit more money in their pockets.
He got rid of local ā€˜housingā€™ tax. Giving another boost to those that paid it even if personally I think itā€™s nonsense that a centralised government can decide what a local community can have to despense. (where I live we got fucked over on our services provided but thatā€™s not the case everywhere).
It helps that he speaks plainly, we know where we stand and the French appreciate the Iā€™m the boss attitude. No point beating about the bush, if you think they are scum call them scum and vice versa.
Heā€™s made many reforms and would have done more if it hadnā€™t been for Covid and stupid spats with the UK, Aussie, ā€¦ It would be interesting to see a list of those reforms (heā€™s mainly just made changes to existing stuff so itā€™s difficult to see. Better than Sarkozy and his 150 tax reforms in 5 years that noone knows about as the media didnā€™t report them.

The big problem is that the damage was done before with Sarkozy and Hollande (worth pointing out Macron had a big hand in Hollandeā€™s complete fuckwittery however it was Hollandeā€™s lack of principles that lead to that). On that itā€™s crazy that Macron hasnā€™t pulled the plug on these twoā€™s ā€˜conneriesā€™.

Honnesty I really dislike him and his politics and as it stands France isnā€™t far off another ā€˜Gilets Jaunesā€™ type movement. Thereā€™s a lot of anger. I think this is common in many european countries, wages are just a ā€˜fuckingā€™ joke as are work conditions. This can not go on, the rich must/have to give something back at some point. Being someone for the rich is just going to encourage the popular class to go toward someone who promises reforms like Le Pen.

3 Likes

I was one of the guys who protested against the implementation of NRC/CAA act. But that said , the situation in Assam w.r.t the illegal immigration is real though. There needs to be some way to determine who is a legal citizen etc.

The way its been handled by the Modi govt is shocking and fucked up.