General world politics chat

Doubt it. If you’ve read the article, they’re simply committing to what they committed to before. Blame the Russophiles in the coalition for them not doing more.

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1st tour of the French legislatives.
Darmanin reported at 40% in his circumscrption, so he’s going nowhere. :cry:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/06/ukraine-bits-no-ammo-more-casualties-thin-lines-propaganda-and-passing-the-buck.html

Expected.

@ISMF

I’m as far from a supporter of Modi and his regime as you get. (Especially being an Indian Citizen) , but Jaishankar sums it up very well from an Indian POV. We’ve had this convo before , and I’m probably late in posting this particular youtube clip. Just felt it was pertinent to this.

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I found this an interesting perspective, thanks for posting. :+1:

Jaishankar looks like a smart politician tbf, and seems to have a clear vision for your country in terms of foreign affairs. Especially his insistence on not necessarily having to align India on the Western axis, nor on China, but having the willingness to chose its own way, is commendable imo, and reminds me a bit of what you did during the cold war era.

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I have also watched this video but did not feel in my place to post this but now that its posted…I must say that he has made very good points and I think hits the spot especially on what he suggests as hypocrisy from Europe. Although I must say I still wish that the major powers of this world would have been collective in condemning Russia but yet Jaishankar has put it very plainly that alot of these condemn or not unfortunately becomes a political power play again.

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Jaishankar on India’s Foreign Policy and Ajit Doval on National Security, two people who are very sound when talking about their respective domains.

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Thanks for posting. He speaks extremely articulately. A very erudite individual. I was disappointed it ended, I felt I could listen to him for hours.

There is no middle ground with China. India already realises that it must side with the US when faced with the evil of the CCP which will provoke war irrespective of any ‘neutrality’ but should make this public. China needs to be isolated and then ground down not placated and treated like a good actor on the world stage. It looks like an inevitable CCP attack on Taiwan draws closer and it’s important regional powers like India start decoupling from all Chinese trade to help reduce the coming shock.

He is ab extremely qualified public servant before he became a politician. I find his views (even if they come from the party of modi/shah) a breath of fresh air and something that he doesnt sugarcoat.

India has already decoupled itself as far as possible from chinese trade. There is no way India despite BRICS is going to align itself with China. We have made the mistake of equal engagement with the dragon before and we have paid the price for it , not least when china doesnt regard india and her values in particular regard.

He speaks eloquently but I found some of his comments somewhat absurd.

Take one of the first sentences.

Europes needs to get out of the mindset that Europe’s problems are the worlds problems, but the worlds problems are not Europes problems.

World humanitarian aid overwhelmingly comes from Europe and other western countries. India for example receives billions of aid every year from Europe. Take the AstraZeneca vaccine produced for the world at cost (over a billion doses of it in India alone). Take COVAX billions of vaccine doses donated world wide.

When ever their is a natural disaster on the world stage Europe and the US are always at the fore.

Nearly 50% of the United Nations peacekeepers budget comes from just the US, UK, France and Germany. For better or worse European nations have been involved in conflicts all around the world. Take investment. European investment bank invests in developing countries across the world. Again billions into India for infrastructure, renewable energy and climate change projects. Europe certainly does engage on the worlds problems. Far more so than Russia, China or rich Arab states.

I also disagree with his stance regarding buying oil. Take Manchester city as an analogy . We are critical of the club because we know where the money came from. It’s blood money. If you buy a piano with ivory keys that’s an ethical decision. The source of where something comes from does matter. The consequences do matter. To act in a purely transactional manner is wrong. Ethically it was wrong of Germany and they became dependent of Russian energy. They have been widely criticised for it. Europe has made massive cuts and I agree should be cutting even more. But that does not make it ethically correct for India to start buying more. Two wrongs don’t make a right and Europe is trying to correct a mistake. India at best is justifying it by saying its transactional and hypocritical to criticise.

I have a mindset of standing up to bully’s, having strong principles and trying to live by them. You set expectations and behaviour. With Russia it’s a dictator, leading to human rights atrocities, promoting extremism and does not care about the consequences. Nations should act with principles and should stand up to bullys.

Which brings me back to my first point. Even if you disagree on everything I wrote. The Russian Ukraine war adversely affects the world not Europe. From world wide inflation through to famines in Africa. It will ultimately lead to a more powerful China. For it to be described as a European problem by that politician is short sighted.

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All of this is right, but look at the facts: big countries never act like that. They think about their own best interests, and practice ruthless Realpolitik to achieve their goals. From our perspective, CCCP and Russia are on the wrong side in moral terms, but has this ever stopped Europe and the US to trade with them in the last thirty years, and allow them to blow themselves up like never before? Has there ever been more than a timid question asked about human rights, democracy or moral principles? Of course not (it still irks me how Switzerland bowed down regarding the Tibet issue, or human rights in China… doing business with them was far, far more important than those little details). Let’s face it, our countries allowed this to happen because it was what they rightly or wrongly perceived as their own best interests at the time.

Likewise, India, as a big actor in Asia, doesn’t care a jolt about moral principles. If a war with Pakistan could further their interests, they’d march in without any afterthought (nuclear weapons prevent that scenario, hopefully to continue).

Likewise, they have a conflictual relationship with China because they compete with them on several levels. They couldn’t care less if a war happens in Europe. Unless it affects their own best interests of course, in which case they’ll do what they think is best to preserve them (for instance preserve a good relationship with Russia in order to get grain and other cereals from them).

I hear you. Bit difficult for me to respond on a mobile. Will post once i get some time at home

What about people with provable parentage?

Switzerland, for all its posturing and egocentrism… has a pretty low bar when it comes to social morality. they’ll take anyone’s money as long as they can get rich off it.

but nowadays… which country is any better???

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The AstraZeneca vaccine wasn’t made to be just supplied to India alone. It was made to be supplied to other countries as well. Again you are talking about billions of vaccines donated worldwide , but in which country apart from 3-4 (Including India) is there the infrastructure to manufacture something on that scale.

I think the consensus was w.r.t UK Aid to India was that the said aid was not even wanted and it did cause a issue there.

So If Europe decides to go to OIC and buy oil from them when they have long standing partnerships with the asian countries (Including India) is fine. They are all expected to break that partnership because Europe offers a better price ?

The issue is on why the situation has been allowed to escalate to that extent.

Again , India probably (w.r.t domestic usecases only needs fertilizers , w.r.t wheat , they have enough to sustain themselves). Rest of all points i agree.

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