You understand that stats are a way of judging individual quality? I’m not a data scientist so you’re free to disagree with my conclusions but it’s an attempt to make sense of the numbers and make it comparable to other players.
Saying “winners” seems far more ambiguous than talking about progressive passes, in my opinion. An individual player can only rarely influence the trophy haul of an entire club. If you think being a “winner” is what we scout by then we probably wouldn’t be interested in Bellingham who has just 1 Pokal to his name.
Age is not a stat like time I checked, neither is price tag.
Minutes played is a stat which have no correlation to quality.
I think 1 pokal to his name in 2 seasons is being a winner as a matter of fact plus the countless individual awards he’s won as a young player…like Nunez and Diaz, we’ve identified immensely talented players with that driven hunger.
If you would demonstrate the faintest shred of reading comprehension, you’d realize that @Kopstar brought age and playing time into the conversation to make a case for Bellingham to be viewed more favorably versus the other young midfielders being discussed.
@Sweeting, sorry to ask you to do further work but what would each of those top 6 <21 midfielders stats look like if you took only their first 800 league minutes or limited it to only their first 12 league appearances?
A young player’s performances may well tail off the more he’s played.
Bellingham: “For me, it was always Wayne Rooney and Steven Gerrard. When I was younger, all I ever wanted was a Birmingham shirt. And then the more and more I watched Wayne Rooney, it was like all I wanted was a Wayne Rooney shirt and all I wanted was a Steven Gerrard shirt. These kinds of people, they kind of mould the way that you play because you admire them so much. So, yeah, those two are probably my two biggest heroes in football.”
If you’re taking these comments as evidence that he wants to sign for Liverpool. Then you have to accept that he’s also signing for Everton or United.
Ok so they’re older by not even a year, for me it’s just pointless…it’s like you can’t compare like for like unless they’re born on the same day date and year.
Even if Jude was 5 months older, he’d still be the better of the 3.
I read it perfectly fine Prolix, my point was (and maybe you’re the 1 with the lack of comprehension skills) what has age or minutes played have to do with any player being favoured over another.
“Top 3 midfielders u21 in order are Camavinga Pedri and Jude, but no not really because Jude is 5-6 months younger and so is really #1.”
It’s a factor that needs to be taken into account.
Bellingham’s played 4,495 minutes already in a top five European league and he turned 19 yesterday.
At the same age:
Pedri 2,827
Camavinga 5,121
Curtis Jones 19
Jacob Ramsey 0
Nico Gonzales 0
It’s more of intangible thing, I get that, but he really seemed like a leader in that Dortmund side, a lot more than the much more seasoned and experienced players in their squad.
I appreciate the work that @Sweeting is putting into his analysis re: Bellingham. There’s no doubt that there’s always risk with purchasing young talent, especially at that fee.
I think the question is whether there’s a value added to trying to buy Jude now rather than waiting a year and watching his value and wage demands increase and/or having his head turned by another club.
I think Ramsey is one to keep a close eye on this season.
He’s not as polished as Jude that’s for sure but it was a very solid breakout season for him at Villa and whilst he needs to work on some areas of his game, I think you could be looking at a young Henderson style CM emerging there. Not fancy and full of flair but good at knitting things together, the ability to drive forward from midfield, pop up with the odd goal in that space between the penalty spot and the edge of the box and a good engine to run all day.
Notable too that whilst Villa have some highly rated players in their academy like Chukwuemeka and Louie Barry, Ramsey has quietly established himself as pretty much a mainstay in the centre of midfield at 20 years old. A season where we see him kick on again and I think he’ll have some big suitors next summer.
He’s also got a manager to learn from who knows a thing or two about playing that position.
