Jude Bellingham (Real Madrid)

[RedWhippet]

@Mascot

It serves a purpose to us to ‘drop out of the race’ for Bellingham pleading poverty. Dortmund and Bellingham are fully aware what is going on.

This entirely. I know the Thiago thing seemed to drag on for ever but generally FSG do their business in private. Public announcements serve a purpose - they are intended to be seen.

[Mascot]

@rab

And for all you know there is no agreement and these stories are entirely true. I guess it’s what you want to believe given we’re all somewhat in the dark.

I think none of us know anything. But you still get lads throwing their arms in the air and rending garments over whatever the click driven sports press shit out on a daily basis.

My position hasn’t changed. We might sign him. We might not. Ultimately it will end up being Bellingham’s decision. But this flurry of press stories doesn’t really change much.

[Zoran]

Players have perhaps more power when it’s between them staying and the club battling to actually keep them. I don’t expect Bellingham to wait for us if there are other teams willing to pay what Dortmund wants or to simply beat their competitors. Regardless if Jude is this mature young man who behaves well, has the right family behind him, etc.

City decided not to go as high as we did for Virgil, they went for Laporte instead. So, even if Virgil wanted to move to City, it was not all up to him where he wanted to go.

Okay, I’m willing to see it of course and hope they’re punished. For now, I’m not seeing anything that suggests so. And that’s one club.

[WeeJoe]

@Mascot

My position hasn’t changed. We might sign him. We might not

hi there Michael Owen

[RedWhippet]

@ZinedineBiscan

I remember when we denied interest in signing Alisson for big money, a month or so before we did.

In fact both Alisson and VVD signed for what, at the time, were record amounts for a player in those positions. It’s not as if we won’t splash the cash if a player is a perfect fit for us.

[PaulRoJo]

@Mascot

When we bought our house we knew what it was worth. It was on the market for ten grand more than that. We offered twenty grand less (ten less than it was worth). They rejected the offer. We made a big show of it being too much money, and even looked at some other houses with the same agent to make it look like we were no longer interested. We waited a week. They came back offering us the house for five grand less than their price. We offered five grand more than our original offer. We ended up settling for exactly what the house was worth, and we both concluded at what we expected to conclude at.

I like you Mascot even though you can be a preachy bastard. But, with respect, buying Jude Bellingham is not like buying a bog standard home and making sure you pay exactly what it is ‘worth’ (presumably by reference to many very recent sales of extremely similar homes). If you were buying (and desperately wanted for it fitted you perfectly) arguably the most outstanding home in England sold in this generation; you would pay whatever it took.

[Draexnael]

@Mascot

My position hasn’t changed. We might sign him. We might not. Ultimately it will end up being Bellingham’s decision. But this flurry of press stories doesn’t really change much.

I think a little bit of humilty has been found by Klopp and FSG, what they bullishly thought would be Bellingham + a back up keeper this window is now 2-3 midfielders, a defender, a forward and a back up keeper because we refused to strengthen last summer.

[Zoran]

I think we can separate the large amount of dross from all media, reliable and unrelieable. And still acknowledge that a lot of it is true. Bellingham to Liverpool right now doesn’t really seem like it’s a 50-50. Nothing dramatic or too sad admitting that.

[Walshy07]

Couldve saved ourselves a hell of a lot of money if we had just signed him from Birmingham considering he has been on our radar for a few years.

[Draexnael]

@Walshy07

Couldve saved ourselves a hell of a lot of money if we had just signed him from Birmingham considering he has been on our radar for a few years.

He refused us and Utd.

[jgw_geneseo]

@Mascot

@The-AllMightyReds

3 months ago you were very confident this deal would happen no matter what so long we really wanted him…so what’s changed?

Have you ever bought a house?

Do you pay the price quoted? Do you keep agreeing to whatever price as an agent continually jacks it up?

When we bought our house we knew what it was worth. It was on the market for ten grand more than that. We offered twenty grand less (ten less than it was worth). They rejected the offer. We made a big show of it being too much money, and even looked at some other houses with the same agent to make it look like we were no longer interested. We waited a week. They came back offering us the house for five grand less than their price. We offered five grand more than our original offer. We ended up settling for exactly what the house was worth, and we both concluded at what we expected to conclude at.

But if the sellers had not budged from their asking price we would have walked away. You have to be prepared to walk away. First rule of negotiation.

Liverpool were never going to pay Dortmund’s fee, which was always going to be significantly more than his actual value (and Dortmund are quite notorious for demanding ridiculous fees, before eventually compromising - see Jadon Sancho).

So maybe Dortmund are not budging on 135m and we are quite rightly walking away. We should not be paying 135m for a player, and anyone who does is not only fucking stupid, but is actively damaging football generally. I don’t see how anyone who isn’t still living with their parents would be pissed off at that. There are loads of other midfielders our there and it doesn’t mean we’re only signing Conor Gallagher and Mason Mount (like you have suggested).

Or, and this is much more likely, we are still really keen on Bellingham, and this is part of the negotiation with Dortmund. They have quoted a ridiculous price fully aware that it’s going to need to come down. We are making a big public show of walking away, as happens all the time with transfers (Liverpool fans have really short memories if they don’t remember us doing this with Van Dijk and Alisson). The only reason to brief this to journalists and make a massive story out of this is as a message back to Dortmund. If we were just going to walk away, we’d just walk away.

So in conclusion, it’s all a bit silly, but this was always going to happen. Dortmund were always going to demand silly money. There was always going to be a moment where Liverpool ‘dropped their interest’. It’s part of the game.

If Bellingham really wants to come here, a compromise will be reached. The only thing that changes is if Bellingham himself moves in the direction of another club. It will be, as I’ve said all along, entirely up to Jude to decide where he plays. Dortmund and Liverpool don’t have as much power or agency in his destination as it might appear.

We have known for a long time Bellingham would be 100m + and we’ve retained our interest at that level. North of 100m hasn’t scared us off. Somewhere in between 100m and 135m there is a price to which we’d stretch and Dortmund would acquiesce.

So, in short, chill out. You’re presumably a clever lad who has been following football for a while. You know how this works. You’ve seen us publicly drop out of transfer chases before. You saw us sign Alison and Van Dijk after publicly declaring we were not interested. We’ve clearly been willing to pay £100m plus for a while.

Do we sign him? I haven’t got a Crystal Ball. I don’t know. What I do know is that this flurry of press reports changes changes nothing. In fact it might suggest that we’re at the ‘haggling over the fee’ stage of the transfer, rather than the very start of the process.

This type is negotiation only works if you are the only bidders or all other bids were worse/lower than yours. In current housing market, sometimes you have to pay over price to secure. It’s actually to the point now when a decent house hits the market, it says in house descriptions online that bids are due by x date and will be reviewed. Buyers market vs sellers market.

There are 2 or 3 teams waving blank checks at them, why would they sell him for less to us?

[rab]

@Mascot

My position hasn’t changed. We might sign him. We might not.

Well that’s everyones position until something happens one way or another

I guess some are more positive and others pessimistic about our chances of signing him and those stories from yesterday certainly add fuel to the pessimists amongst us.

The stories don’t greatly change my pessimistic stance on this that I’ve held for quite some time. It’s always been about the price in my eyes. He was too expensive last summer when we could almost have got away with him being our one and only signing (although the subsequent injuries to Jota and Diaz would have left us short up top). But Dortmund didn’t want to sell so it was a bit of a non-starter.

But I don’t think he’ll be much cheaper this summer than last but we clearly need more than just him and I don’t see us being able/willing to afford him being part of a bigger rebuild this coming window.

I think our only hope is him staying another year. We get a couple midfielders this summer to bolster that area of the pitch with a view to being all in on him next summer when the price will have come down due to it being his last year. Thiago leaves at the end of his deal freeing up a squad spot and a chunk of wages to accommodate Jude’s arrival.

I just can’t see a scenario where he moves to us this summer.

[Mascot]

@rab

Well that’s everyones position until something happens one way or another

What I’m trying to say is that with a signing like this - huge fee, other suitors, there is going to be loads of stuff going on in the press.

This latest round doesn’t really change anything. It still might happen. It still might not.

Anyone who looks at this and goes ‘Right! That’s it! Lock the thread!’ is massively jumping the gun.

Or to put it another way Thiago, Alisson, Van Dijk, Keita. I wish we’d signed those lads. Such a shame we pulled out.

[Mascot]

@jgw_geneseo

There are 2 or 3 teams waving blank checks at them, why would they sell him for less to us?

If they can persuade Jude to go to one of them, then obviously they wouldn’t.

Which is why I’ve said all along, the biggest driver is Bellingham. If he has decided where he wants to go, that’s the most important thing. Everyone will just end up being sensible.

[Zoran]

And why would they do that?

Of course Bellingham will not go somewhere where he doesn’t want. But if he’s open for Liverpool, that doesn’t mean he’s rejecting all others clubs in the next year or more.

[Mascot]

@PaulRoJo

I like you Mascot even though you can be a preachy bastard. But, with respect, buying Jude Bellingham is not like buying a bog standard home and making sure you pay exactly what it is ‘worth’ (presumably by reference to many very recent sales of extremely similar homes). If you were buying (and desperately wanted for it fitted you perfectly) arguably the most outstanding home in England sold in this generation; you would pay whatever it took.

Another reason it’s not like buying a house is that Jude gets to decide who gets him. Imagine buying a house, but the house gets to decide who ultimately buys it.

The analogy was just to highlight that making a public show of walking away is part of any negotiation. It’s not like we haven’t done it before.

Dortmund were always going to price high, fully expecting to have to come down a bit.

[Zoran]

For every one of those I think there are about 10 more than we didn’t get. And it’s alright, we’re not the only ones, others fail to get their priority targets as well. Not every transfer at Real Madrid is a ‘Kylian Mbappe’ or a 'Jude Bellingham. But what I know is that we very, very rarely get those.

[Mascot]

@Zoran

And why would they do that?

Of course Bellingham will not go somewhere where he doesn’t want. But if he’s open for Liverpool, that doesn’t mean he’s rejecting all others clubs in the next year or more.

I just think that’s not how transfers work, especially not ones like this. Clubs are assumed to have all the power, but it’s all with the player.

Jude will decide where he wants to go. He’ll talk to interested clubs and make up his mind, and then the two clubs will thrash out a fee, ending up somewhere realistic.

[Zoran]

Who says clubs or players have all the power? Not one side has all the power. It depends sometimes from case to case, where is it more and where less. Dortmund will naturally want the highest bid and the most money. Bellingham will want to go to a top club/side. Out of the options with the highest bidders, Dortmund will decide which to accept and Bellingham which one does he want of those.

[Mascot]

@Zoran

For every one of those I think there are about 10 more than we didn’t get. And it’s alright, we’re not the only ones, others fail to get their priority targets as well. Not every transfer at Real Madrid is a ‘Kylian Mbappe’ or a 'Jude Bellingham. But what I know is that we very, very rarely get those.

I can only really think of one transfer in recent years that were obviously into and the lad went somewhere else - that was Tchoumeni. Prior to that you’d have to go back to the likes of Draxler and Gotze swerving us in the first year of Klopp’s run.

The way we seem to work is that we line up the player, and then we talk to the club and agree a fee. I’m not aware of us ever bidding for players speculatively or getting involved in bidding wars.