Post Match: Everton v Liverpool (EPL 17/10/2020 12.30pm)

I’m sure that for some, seeing me posting here is about as welcome as Martin Atkinson or Jordan Pickford.

I’ve enjoyed reading the forum (and TIA) the last year or so, in fact its been much more enjoyable than getting embroiled in what comes with posting.

I return now, albeit briefly, and don’t worry very occasionally, because I have been reeling over the past few days about Saturday’s events, waking up in the early hours with that awful hurt one feels when a family member is suffering, and the anger when they have been wronged.

I needed an outlet for it.

Whilst what happened, and has happened since, is no surprise, I have been shocked by what seems to me to be a step up in what LFC has always suffered.

Let me first speak of VVD. This man’s decision to join us was - without question in my humble opinion - the point at which we stepped up from a thereabouts club, to a club that had a realistic chance of winning the major prizes.

The man is a gentleman, a man who suffered a difficult upbringing, but who worked his way to becoming for me the best defender our club has ever had.

I am gutted to my core that he has suffered a career threatening injury, and that we - and the Dutch national side - may never see the same player again as walked onto that pitch on Saturday. Having read about this injury, it’s possible it will take two years for him to get anywhere near to whatever his new ceiling is, although I have faith in his mental outlook and physical prowess to make that timescale the shortest and ceiling the highest possible.

He was our most reliable defender, rarely injured, it took an all out assault to take him out of the side for a considerable period. He would have been our rock for five more years without serious injury, a major club asset, nearly cut in two by a cocky, narcissistic, simpleton.

Carragher’s rage at Souness for calling this out was additionally sickening. I’m finding Carra very irritating of late and can barely listen to him.

IMO all Everton’s actions on Saturday were deliberate. It’s been going on for years. From Funes Mori taking out Origi, who himself has never been the same again, to Ross Barkley regularly leaving his foot in after the ball has gone, to these two incidents of thuggery on Saturday.

I’m not sure when Duncan Fergusson rejoined the coaching staff there, and whether any of this correlates with that, but he did seem to be sitting there quite smug towards the end of the match. Ancelloti’s failure to condemn either tackle afterwards shows that even if he didn’t direct it, he certainly isn’t the gentleman people say he is and isn’t even half the man Klopp is.

As to the officials and VAR, I do not believe that this is ineptitude. I believe that they are not impartial, I believe that there is bias and prejudice at play (regional and club related), and in the case of a certain referee, I believe he is corrupt. I always comforted myself that he was nearing retirement, as he looks nearer to 60 to me, but alas a Wiki check revealed to my horror that he is only late 40s.

Clearly the failure of the media to major on something like this, nor the authorities to deal with this, is nothing new. If it had been Alisson on Calvert Lewin they’d have banned him for a year.

The offside decision seems minor in the context of VVD, but it is nonetheless disgusting.

There is regional prejudice in this country towards Liverpool as a city - in the media, general population and establishment. It’s partly because the city is anti-establishment, non conformist and irreverent. It’s also because of jealousy.

The clamour for the season to be cancelled last spring was not just the vested interests of smaller clubs, it was the absolute hysteria that was quite rife about the prospect of us winning the title.

That Everton Football Club are willing participants in the aspects of this that are directed at Liverpool Football Club, is their own folly, when they as city residents suffer from the same stereotyping in other ways.

I really do hope that Jurgen sees this and is more determined than ever to stay at the helm and help our club fight it, rather than be ground down by it and leave.

Those who do this to us would love him to do so, just as they’d love players to think twice about joining us, as doing so clearly leaves them fair game for thuggery.

A quick word before I go about how we cope with this.

I said to myself over the summer that we were taking a huge gamble by not replacing Lovren.
I’m a big believer in not tempting fate, and we really were testing lady luck’s devotion to us.

Matip is a class defender, but is too injury prone, and whilst Gomez has qualities, for me he is just not top class. He switches off too often, and the reason this isn’t noticed is because his recovery pace gets him out of trouble a lot. His switching off is mostly exploited when he’s outmaneuvered and wrong sided in the box.

Personally I didn’t want to see Fabinho in defence, as whilst well stocked in midfield, the trio of him, Thiago and Hendo is our best midfield, wonderful on Saturday and a midfield we really need against top sides.

Let’s just hope that we manage to compete for prizes regardless, though right now I mainly just want us to finish top 4.

I really do hope that we sign a top class centre back in January, an heir apparent to VVD, who hopefully will keep the defence at the right level until VVD’s return, and ideally then form an impenetrable defence if VVD comes back anywhere near what he was.

At the very least, the next two and a bit months will demonstrate whether Matip and Gomez are truly what we need, in fitness terms and level.

My best wishes to VVD, and to all of you.

19 Likes

Welcome to the new home, glad you posted!

Top post. Please come back more often!

Can I just highlight this:

Agreed. I’d like Carragher to tone it down a LOT, he was a slightly better than mediocre trier who benefited from playing with some much more talented offensive players and would do well to remember this and regain some humility.

Absolutely this. I’m actually pissed that liverpool haven’t made more of this - during the game. I know it sounds crazy but if they had protested hard enough, and got say the coaching staff screaming at the ref etc and players refused to play on then I’m sure they could have pressured the video reply to be used and Pickford would have gone off.
While it looks classy of Jurgen to not go after the ref or Ancelloti after the game, I think he could and should have. I also think that when we play Everton next things will be very rough. I expect that the first tackle from Liverpool will result in outrageously over the top rolling around from Everton and James is almost certainly going to be waving cards all game. Ancelloti is not a nice man he is an Italian who is steeped in playing dirty and, now that he is coaching inferior cloggers, is resorting back to what is deep in his DNA. It was telling that it was his signings, Allen and James whom he knows well and has coached before, that were the most snide. That is how Everton will play it next time - I expect they’ll try their hardest to have someone harshly send off.
Hopefully in the buildup to the game a very clear public message is sent to the ref that they cannot treat us like that again.

7 Likes

One situation is now repeating almost every game and no one is talking about that.
Everton first goal probably came from the offside position. We had similar situation agains VIlla.
The refs have a new rule, let them play and the VAR will overturn the decision if the goal is scored from the offside position. Many of those are clear and obvious offside, but the flag is staying down. Still no one is checking those situations when the goal isn’t scored! Last season VAR overturne some decisions after 2,3,4 minutes, now they aren’t going to check if it was an offside before a corner kick?!

7 Likes

But he’ll fight for his team mates…

Is it true what I’m reading…Coots didn’t know he could send off Flappy…are these people real.

2 Likes

I dont recall the incident you are talking about, but the situation you describe is a completely absurd outcome of the way we’re deciding to treat offside in the presence of VAR. It is not just providing the back up it was designed to, it is changing the way the game is officiated for the worse.

2 Likes

I think Carragher tries too hard to be impartial during commentary’s and post match analysis. I know it’s his job, but he’s a bit over the top on occasions and yes, it becomes irritating. However, I think he was way out of line the way he interrupted Souness and called him out for his tackling. To his credit Souness ignored him and carried on, pointing out Pickford’s assault on Virgil and the failures of VAR. Carragher’s little outburst, I believe was to appease his Evertonian family and mates.

3 Likes

I think the old saying applies to Carragher… “A friend to everyone is a friend to no-one”
Yes he should remain impartial in all football matters… but he has an aggressive tendency to ‘ram’ his opinions down your throat without any respite for alternate views…!
I think personally he has been lucky (apart from Rafa and Kenny) that we had crap managers at the helm for most of his playing career… and I doubt very much either one of them would have bust a gut to go and sign him if he played for another club… He is obviously privileged to hold the position with SKY and other stations that he does… they obviously see a talent there that I don’t…!
A little humility replacing the ‘in your face’ bombardments here and there would be best for all…

1 Like
8 Likes

All sorts of horseshit coming out today to try and cover up Coots’s clear-as-day corruption. The more the PL, Riley etc say the more they expose themselves as fucking liars. Good liars need to do 2 things, get their story straight and have a good memory. These clowns should at least have the sense to consult each other on what garbage they’re going to feed us but it seems they’re too stupid to even do that.
As usual the club are too soft and that’s why we’ll continue to be an easy target for these cheats. This will be all forgotten about next week and that sickens me. We should go public and say we don’t accept any of the explanations given and we believe Coots is a cheat with some previous. I wont hold my breath though.

10 Likes

Some things are never gonna change. As Klopp said we are top of the table on fair play list almost every year. In reality what that actually brings to us?! Nothing really. Not one of the refs shows that these things matter. So if you can’t beat them, join them. We need to introduce some dirty tricks into our game, much more thuggery, moaning stuff like all the clubs do, diving all over the pitch, overreacting for everything, even for the little things. In reality that can bring you at least 5-10 points through the season.
We had awful tackle from Pickford, yet not one of our players went to the ref. That is unacceptable! As such we are the easiest targets for the refs, that is the case for a long time now.
Imagine if that situation happened to Chelsea, City, Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, not to mention weaker teams, they would be all over the ref, forcing him to at least look that situation once more.
On the same day we had Everton with dirty tackles all over the pitch, still James Rodrigez has shown a few yellows to the ref, suggesting he needs to punish almost every tackle we made. So you’ve got a dirty team who even put pressure on the ref to punish the other side, who is always on top of the fair play list. Ridiculous! Do people really believe this things are gonna change by itself? Don’t be so naive.
The only person who did recognize this problem in out team was King Kenny, that’s why he brought people like Charlie Adam, Carroll, Enrique, Henderson, Bellamy, Suarez… Just think about those players, every one of them is hard, ready to fight, act, put pressure where is needed.

2 Likes

You have to have crap brain dead players to play thuggish football,we’ve got rid of Albi and Lovren so we’re fucked then.

Doubt we’d get away with playing like that anyway.

1 Like

The game is being ruined by the referees and their bosses… that is the simple matter of the day.!
Jurgen has put a crop of players together that has the fans exited for each game… off their seats during the game… and memories to carry for a lifetime and beyond after the game…
Why should he change his philosophy from these to accommodate the incompetence of the officials…

2 Likes

The fair play award should be an extra point at the end of the season and a point deducted for the worst offenders.

4 Likes

Watch how our number of cards would rocket upwards if that were the case.

5 Likes

I’m not talking about style of play. Barcelona played amazing football in the last 2 decades, still they’ve done a lot of overreacting, acting, pressure on refs. That’s how they protected them from the thugs on the other side. Imagine playing A. Madrid every season at least 2 times. You can’t expect something will change there style of play. But with constant moaning and acting even Atletico players know not to go too hard against Barca, otherwise every tackle is a card.

2 Likes

ha ha ha That’s football, bitch

1 Like

What a header… Great cross from Mane… I wouldn’t be surprised if these useless refs disallow this stating he celebrated raising his hand…

1 Like

Come on Reds… Score 1 more and lets win this in style… There seems to be a witch hunt against us… Take nothing for granted…