You make some good points but could do so without calling them cunts. The same manager and team who have brought us so much joy. This forum stinks after we lose games
1 Like
Fair point, guess I see footballers as leading a very easy life! So to hear whining about fatigue it’s all a little, come on buddy come live in the real world for a day…
Morning everyone…due to circumstances beyond my control…could not watch or hear the game last night…sounds like a shit show…so all I can say is take the pressure off…go and play…onwards and onwards…
1 Like
Anyone else get frustrated by the number of times we get a throw in right in line with opponents box only for it to be taken and see the ball on the halfway three seconds later? Or, we get a ball played forward sharpish only for the next pass to be pinged back the same way it came from while the opposition scamper back? Does my fucking head in. We actually make that type of low block work in that we make it extremely easy to play. The opposition is not being turned around and running back enough and are simply being allowed to get back in position with very little pressure.
We are being our own enemy in how methodical, wait no, lethargic we have played. And no, it’s not down to Thiago as he has often enough played those quick passes forward that have ended up back with the CB two or three seconds later.
6 Likes
I live in the real world, and don’t call everyone here cunts when they let me down. We’re in our first bad patch in over 3 years of unrelenting success. Our 3 CBs are out for the season and too many players off form at the same time. People need to calm down and get behind the team, or is YNWA only when we’re winning?
9 Likes
It is as though ‘patience’ has literally become the watchword in our play against these scummy low block sides. Harass them into submission from the off and get the goal required. Pass as much as you want after that.
2 Likes
You can support the club and sing YNWA win or lose, you can also be completly frustrated at seeing us lose in the manner we keep doing, that doesn’t make you any less of a fan.
My point is simple, they need to stop feeling sorry for themselves, step up and stop making excuses, it doesn’t help anything.
Calling someone a soft cunt isn’t really the worst from my perspective but universally I appreciate was out of order.
1 Like
I remember that well. Ox had three Brighton players in a 2 meter diameter in front of him just ahead of the D. Ox tries to do a Maradonna and take all three on. He just ended up simply running into the first player who nicked the ball off him, and launched the start of a counter situation.
I honestly have no idea what went through his mind there. Yes, he was probably under instructions to run with the ball breaking the lines. But that play was just plain stupidity. Just pass to the player next to him for a simple but effective one two. Keep the ball ticking. If there’s one man in front of you then ok take him on. Not when the three are virtually standing in front of you each holding hands.
We know he has a good shot on him, so has licence to shoot. But that 30 yard shot which went way into the stands was hit with less confidence than a Rob Jones shot.
Really want him to regain that form pre-injury. Just what we need. It’s sad that at the moment all we have is a pale imitation of Ox. We want our Ox back!
That’s a scary heat / pass map. How many players does it take to do the same job?
You’ve got to feel for Robbo, I bet he looks up and just see’s 2 Brighton players ahead of him…
Bobby and Shaqiri being sat on eachother whilst sat on top of the center midfield is just insane.
As many as it takes to change a lightbulb
Interesting that Div led the “progressive carrying” category. Maybe he’s not as shite as many people think?
2 Likes
Haha he only got that because he tackled Robbo and then cleared it 
Or no-one else in the team actually progressed it once!
2 Likes
Disappointing performance, but I think a couple of points need keeping in mind.
Firstly, there is a huge difference between planned rotation and enforced changes due to injuries.
You choose when to do the former, you have no choice in the latter, and in the case of the latter the blend of the side and momentum are affected. In fact, there’s a morale issue too, when players are going down left right and centre it must affect the mood of the camp.
Injuries have made it near on impossible for us to build momentum over more than a couple of matches, especially as the ideal options for certain matches have been missing.
This is where having a bit of an injury prone squad hampers us, more so this season because the intensity of the season exacerbated that particular issue. I don’t know why injuries are such an issue for us, whether it’s just who we have, the style we use or the training, but clearly it’s an issue.
We clearly addressed a few issues in the summer, Thiago was bought to unlock tight defences, and I think Jota is his ideal forward partner in that. We’ve never had both fit at the same time yet.
Bobby’s form and inconsistency is an issue for us, but in any case I think he’s less suited to matches like last night than against sides who are more open. Of course we had little choice, with Mane and Jota out. I’m not sure if Minimino was loaned out to offset cost of incomings, but if you’re going to loan someone out, you want to see a benefit. Origi and Shaqiri can be woeful at times, but if Minimino can get 10 to 15 PL matches we might get a 5th genuine option for the forward line back for next season. Maybe Elliott can become the 6th before long.
Milner also needs rotating not releasing. Superb at Spurs, good at West Ham, expecting him to play three matches in quick succession is too much. Also, last night he suffered because Gini was off it.
Yes Klopp needs to find solutions, but he must feel like he’s in the middle of a blizzard right now, with the constant changes in availability of players.
The title isn’t realistic now, no way are we going to put together a run of nearly all wins. But that’s fine, it never really was once our entire central defence went down.
We just need to secure top 4 and do as well as we can in the CL.
If Fabinho is available more than not, hopefully we can use Hendo in midfield more, with Milner and Gini rotating, Thiago creating, and three from four of Mane, Mo, Bobby and Jota once Jota is fit.
It is going to be tough, as being able to do the above depends on injuries, but we just have to support the club regardless.
Injuries, disgraceful refereeing, and the impact of no crowds have all combined to disproportionately affect us this season, so let’s just hope we can find a way to get through.
Our team and squad is as good as the Manchester clubs, and whilst any squad can move up or down a few places season to season, the above issues have put us at risk of a very damaging loss of top four status.
We need to dig in and ensure that doesn’t happen.
8 Likes
This thread certainly makes for grim reading in the morning…
Having watched the match while attempting to bake some bread, I had a merciful distraction from the frustration of having to watch our team play that way. Thankfully, I made the decision to avoid this thread until today, so I wouldn’t have to deal with the knee-jerk reactions from so many on here.
First off, that last point. Some culprits on here were more than happy to say that we were back in the title race after the previous 2 wins, but now they’re also saying that we’re not going to make top 4. If that isn’t knee-jerk, I’m not sure what else qualifies. I don’t think people remember, but at the start of the season, City were a similar margin behind us, and yet they caught up. I think it is too early to declare anything in this chaotic season, even though City might have built up a tidy run. Note that when their run of wins is mentioned, it also includes their miraculously easy cup runs, so despite what the media perception is, the story isn’t over yet. Not when this season includes so many twists yet to come.
Secondly, it’s easy to forget (or ignore) that if not for the officials (not in this game however), we would still be on the top of the table. This of course helps to build the narrative that we’re doing really poorly, when in reality, our performances would have, in a fair world, seen us way behind last season, but still good enough to be leading the league, and on course to win it again. No doubt that contributes to the general sense of crisis that people are feeling.
Thirdly, there’s too much scapegoating going on. Over my last few posts, I’ve been rather defensive of Origi, because he seems to be the popular scapegoat at the moment, just like Williams was earlier, or Jones before him. Naturally, these same people scapegoating Origi fail to notice that he’s still done better than Firmino, and the same things that they criticise him for, Firmino’s pretty much just done the same for most of the past season and a half. The main difference is that Firmino has been a mainstay of this team for the entire Klopp era, and so according to some, “has earned his credit”. But that doesn’t make up for the fact that he’s far below his peak levels, and hasn’t been there but for the odd occasion since we won the Champions League. Sure he runs a lot, but even his pressing has been much less effective than it used to be, and I think, if people look past their bias, it’s observable that performance-wise, there isn’t that much you can criticise Origi for that Firmino isn’t doing the same. Taking the ball off teammates who are in better positions and slowing the play down pointlessly, he’s been doing since the restart of the league post-COVID, if not before. Misplacing passes, shooting wide? It’s notable that this malaise has been going on not just for the both of them, but also the rest of the team. It’s just that Mané and Salah have been a level above for the last season. During our slump, they haven’t been any better either. Banging on the same drum I was before, statistically speaking, Origi had a similar assist/goals rate per 90 minutes to Salah last season, second only to him in our entire team. The whole narrative of Origi being shit last season is greatly overblown. What he is, is very different to our other options, but that’s also why he’s needed in our team. He’s not going to be a Firmino replacement, and will never be. What he could be however, is a really devastating striker, which we know he can do. I don’t think we can honestly say that after that horrific injury, he’s ever gotten a consistent run of games to get used to the teamplay or to really modify his game. He’s also fast, but his acceleration is worse than any of the usual front 3, so he’s always going to be less effective when pressing.
To the people who are saying we need to give Minamino a chance instead of Origi, because he hasn’t had much playing time in the team to get in the rhythm, and because he’s young and he’s got potential, Minamino is 3 months older than Origi. Just because he’s the new toy doesn’t mean he’s got any more or less potential, or any more or less of a need to play in the team to gain rhythm. It’s quite obvious that when we have players coming in for the first time, they do need that valuable game time to get used to those around them. Just like for Oxlade-Chamberlain. Like it or not, he hasn’t had consistent game time since a couple of seasons ago, which would go a long way to explaining why he’s looked so poor.
And for those who think Jürgen looks like he’s given up, perhaps it’s just that he’s taking the longer-term view of things. He knows that eventually he can get the team to play better and more cohesively, but right now we are in the middle of a proper slump, induced by an injury crisis just when we need stability and options. Firmino’s poor form wouldn’t matter as much if Jota hadn’t suffered an injury (which he could have just as well suffered the next game, for all the whiners). We haven’t had a consistent centre-back pairing at all this season thanks to the fact that we seem to break players each time they start at centre-back for us. I would not be surprised at all if Davies and Kabak get injured on their respective debuts, it’s that kind of a season for us. This inability to maintain any consistency is always going to have a knock-on effect for us, whether or not we signed someone new.
We can’t always have seasons like the last two. We’re inevitably going to have poor ones, and it’s hard enough building a winning team, let alone sustaining one through effective transitions. I think the manager has demonstrated that he has the ability to do it. Days like these suck, and I have no doubt that we’ll see them again before the end of the season, but I do think we have a winning team, not just on the pitch but off it, that can help us properly construct a dominating juggernaut.
5 Likes
No joke, but Origi came to life after the 90th minute. He actually did one good press, then he had one good run…but that’s about it. Sums up how poor we actually were, with the likes of Ox literally running into players when trying to take them on.
I mean there’s a certain irony to that, when Ox is trying something different and gets slagged off for it by the same people who say that we need to try something different…
“Try something different! No not that! Or that!”
1 Like
Try the thing that gets us goals is the better shout.
You can’t get away from the fact that we had 8 potential first team players injured last night. No team handles that well.
2 Likes
Sorry mate but I have to disagree with you on Origi.
His sit down protest in the area against West Ham spoke volumes about his levels of effort, along with his movement for Salah’s second goal. I urge you to watch that again.
To add to that I’m also convinced that he simply doesn’t know what he should do with regard to movement. It’s just not in there.
6 Likes
Yep Origi works great when he gets the ball to feet and he can pick it up and run into space.
His movement is generally awful. He is such a static player.
And yes my view is he is lazy, the drop off in pressing effectiveness with him playing is huge, always seems a half-assed effort as he never actually achieves anything with it, like he’s doing it because he’s been told to and goes through the motions.
4 Likes