Post match: Man Utd v Liverpool (EPL 13/5/21 8.15pm)

We are possibly bickering a bit too much over it now, as we kicked their asses.

We can all agree the handball rule is unnecessarily complicated.
We can all agree Bailey was lucky not to concede a penalty, brushing the ball first then clattering through Nat, recklessly. Foul elsewhere on the pitch. Probable penalty against us had we done it.
We can all agree Taylor is crap.

Beyond that, we are in a better position than in quite a while, we won for the first time at Old Trafford since 2014, and things look reasonably positive, in the context of a dog of a season.

More work to do. Starting with West Brom.

PS - glad we didn’t lose!

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I honestly thought we were in for a hiding but it was a very good performance from us they were fairly crap throughout the game, great win and destination is in our hands.

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I think @Limiescouse meant if it hits the arm that’s on the ground it’s no pen but if hits the other arm that’s waving about in the air then that can be given.

The whole ‘natural’ position is a silly argument anyway. Nobody runs, jumps, slides in, makes a sudden stop or does literally any movement besides standing in one position without their arms moving about and away from the body as they do it.

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Glad we beat Manure. Well deserved no doubt about it.

I didn’t think it was handball and I didn’t think it was a penalty. The trouble is we’ve had the same decisions given against us umpteen times, even when the ref has given it, VAR has made the ref take a look.

There are a couple of really obnoxious posters on here. If you don’t think there’s an agenda against LFC that’s your perogative but for me it’s as clear as day.

Nat Phillips and Rhys Williams have given everything and done their best but let’s face it they’re crap for the level we’re at, there’s no ifs and buts about it. I love them, love their attitude, their determination but normally they’d be nowhere near the 1st 11.

Also every goal conceded is a mistake made by a player. Some worse than others. Otherwise every game would be 0-0.

I’m sure Klopp will handle Sadio. It’ll be done behind closed doors as it should be.

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Also if anyone doesn’t see the reason for our struggles this season is we’ve had the guts ripped out the team through injury and that the season being condensed has killed us just look at the table.
Man City can get a max 89 points.
Manure can get a max 76 points for 2nd.

2nd place points last season 81
3rd place 66

Season before 2nd place 97
3rd place 72

Manure’s points tally
2015 = 66
2016 = 69
2017 = 81
2018 = 66
2019 = 66
2020 = currently 70 could be a max 76.

Have they been better or the rest poorer?

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Who cares?
We won, not only did we win for 25 minutes, from the start of the 2nd half we dominated so much that Manure couldn’t get the ball out of their final 3rd. We had close to 90% possession in that time. It can not be argued our lads fought for and won that victory in a deserved manner.
When Nat stuck the ball past Alisson I thought, shit this is going to be one of those days, however it wasn’t Nat chased everything every time he had an opportunity to get into the opposition box and his efforts created the chance Jota put away.
Our central defenders made loads of errors/mistakes but also played some good passes showed determination enough skill and last ditch endeavour to help us get the win.
Having said that the 1st half was worrying we got dominated in midfield again and Klopp needs to look closely at that as someone isn’t pulling their weight.

The thing is sice January when have we won a game when the opposition have scored 2 goals?
Thisis a big positive for me. Next objective win like that withour conceeding!

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I can be wrong, certainly.
Not this time though!

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I thought the agenda was fully in evidence the other night.
Taylor gave only obvious fouls agsinst Utd, whilst Liverpool were punished for every scrappy 50/50.
The McTominay decision was a microcosm of Taylors obvious bias, and that’s including the Bailly foul on Phillips.

The argument is circular, a few of us point out what we witness, and that seems to annoy people enough to have a remark.
I celebrated the win as much as anyone, I sweated like everyone else when Rashford scored. But I pointed out Taylors crap game because his actions were overlooked in the euphoria of the win.
Had we lost would it be more obvious? He is a serial transgressor against Liverpool. And Tierney.
But being honest and expressing the view seems to annoy people. So be it.

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I agree that it would be harsh. My view is that most handball decisions over the past two years have been crazy harsh. But in the wider context, the issue of bias in refs is the problem.

In an unbiased ref, close 50/50 calls you would expect to even out after a large number of games. Maybe there will be a plus one or a minus two from the norm due to natural variance.

The issue is that if you look at close decisions, we more often than not get on the wrong end of the decision. In other words, we statistically get shafted towards the extremes in the negative direction. If it happens over one or two seasons, then ok, could just be extreme natural variance.

But to happen over a statistically significant period, there will be underlying issues. One of course was the Fergie effect (plenty of comments from Gary Neville how they would wind up the ref). Today, it’s more about how other teams play on the edge of the rules, whereas for the most part, we are respectful to the ref. See how other teams get in the ear of the ref.

I’m not saying there is a huge conspiracy (there isn’t) There doesn’t need to be.

Take a roulette table in a casino. The house edge guarantees a profit over the long term. Now if someone finds a weakness (manufacturing defect, lazy staff, etc), and finds out before the casino itself (who will have software to analyze the data), then they could eat into the house edge. Think Man City and the tactical fouling.

Then of course, there is the media. Think of the difference in coverage between Salah and golden boy Harry Kane. When every media outlet is screaming about how Mo goes down easily, then the ref will consume this and it will play on his mind during the game. Mo goes down in the game, then the ref second guesses himself and in 50/50 decisions, will play on.

Last week, Greenwood handballs against Villa at 2-1. His hand is way above his head. Ref deems it natural (very arguable) and close proximity. Then look at the handballs given against us.

Going back to the Bailly incident. There is also the VAR problem in terms of technicalities. If the ref gave a freekick outside the area, then VAR would’ve intervened to upgrade it to a penalty by checking of it was outside or inside the area (see the Fab penalty against the Blades earlier in the season).

As it was given a pen, then VAR can actually get involved to review the tackle, which it couldn’t do in the Fab penalty. Stupid as it creates two different outcomes for more or less the same (well Bailly’s was more egregious) incident.

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How can an arm deflecting a goal bound shot not be a penalty?
Games gone bonkers, fans gone raving bonkers!

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Hence why it baffles me as to why he refs our games I know it was a last minute change as Oliver was the original ref?

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I think they are shite, and really no better than the fourth or fifth best team in the country.

What they’ve got is an average team with a couple of players capable of a bit of magic. Like Fernandez. The nearest parallel I can think of is dropping Luis Suarez and our 13/14 team. Only Bruno is nowhere near as good as Luis and this United team is nowhere near that Liverpool team.

They’ve done well by flat track bullying teams below them, and turning the covid football situation to their advantage, but they are miles off challenging, really they are.

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I don’t disagree with any of that, and to be honest I haven’t a clue what constitutes handball these days.

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If referees could leave their massive ego’s in the dressing room and simply remember they are there to interpret the rules of the game as have been written down… In a similar fashion to that of any High Court Judge in the land of litigation… Instead, they become like some fame hungry contestant on a talent show and turn into judge, jury and executioner on the field of play by consistently being inconsistent with their personal interpretation of the ruling guidelines…!!
Most of them seem to relish their 15minutes of sensational fame because no matter how badly they perform… there is no punishment for the crime, nor do they lose any money for their inept crap!

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We smashed them because they are shit. :grinning:

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I agree 100%.

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That’s wet defending! It’s wetter than a prostitute in a swimming pool! Terrible!

Oh my… :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

:rofl:

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The thing is with the defence we have and how much better I think we are generally 4-2 is about right.

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It’s also been MASSIVELY lifted by penalties. I think they’ve had close to twice the number we’ve had this season.

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