I think we need to be clear on this.
Carvalho is NOT a midfielder in our system. He can play a false 9, maybe one of the wide forward roles.
He’s not gonna be tracking back and winning possession, nor covering for Trent/Robbo when they go forward, nor physically contest against PL midfielders
Let’s not falsely pad our midfield numbers
The pictures show that he was objectively not ahead of the defender within the measurement tolerance.
Edit: That was the whole basis for the onside decision.
Carvalho is not the point… Point was i dont think the club wanted to revamp the midfield this summer. Given the expenditure on Nunez and Diaz…i believe they are waiting for some wages to come off the books… Whether it is 1 or 3 additions next summer. Only they know.
Slim possibility that they move forward a transfer.
I couldn’t read all that, but from what I’ve seen it’s looking like the club had a very successful year in 21/22 with two trophies and a MAXIMUM amount of games played.
Looking back at that, I’m not at all surprised to see a dip to start this season. See 20/21 season, we started off brightly but fell off a cliff a few months after winning the league. reinforcements would have been nice considering the state of our midfield (not going to beat that dead horse) but that’s now how Klopp does things and we know this by now.
If you’ve got problems with that,reflect back to the rejoicing when Klopp extended his contract and then have a good look in the mirror.
We look jaded. Last season and the unsuitable Pre season with more travelling than training, has taken its toll. Also the inability to spot the players that were on the way down and a failure to refresh the squad. Carvalho and Elliot are brilliant young players but we needed more with so many sick notes and aging players n the squad. Obviously things will improve as more players recover but how long will they stay fit for? Looks like we will have to concentrate on the 3 cup competitions this season but to win cups you need to be able to play a more "energetic " type of game than we are currently playing.
Naby not playing again was a concern. I am not a fan of his but it is rather late in the window to replace him. Hopefully Jurgen and co can liven up the players but frankly the squad looks weak and unbalanced at the moment. Maybe after next weekend it will all look different
Disappointing game, didn’t deserve to win. Thought it was a marginal offside, but a close call. Could have gone either way. Difficult to pick out a single excuse for the performance. Could be due to a number of factors. Two of our midfielders approaching the twilight of their careers, a truly uninspiring bench (obvs due to injuries), Man U seemed to have more desire, our players seemed far apart on the pitch and lacked precision when passing, they were also slow to counter attack, we looked leggy etc etc. I hope we can pick things up going forward, but our season will be over before it begins if we don’t. We may have to settle for a transition season.
Look
Either he is ahead of the player or not.
The measurement tolerance is also a subjective decision, depending on the angle of the line?
Edit: From the ESPN piece quoted by @Worgan earlier…
“Rasford was technically offside”
“The goal will stand, due to inaccuracies in the system”
If the system has inaccuracies why trust it?
This tolerance level is more trouble than its worth…go back either onside or offside…
All of that applies to Elliot and he plays in midfield.
Similar was thought about Lallana and even Wijnaldum way back when too.
Carvalho could play in our midfield, just needs balancing with who else is selected to play in there with him.
When I saw the team last night i knew we were in trouble. The Brentford hammering before playing us was just what they needed, Ten Hag knows what he is doing by dropping Fred, Ronaldo and McGuire. Now we need a reaction at weekend and get back to winning.
Looked a hell of a lot more than 2" to me.
The commentary I saw said he was offside as soon as the still came up, then there was a silence kind of “oh” moment when it was given. The VAR decision was very quick as well.
Still I’m less upset about that decision than I am about our performance.
In principle it’s fine but again the application raises questions. It feels as if it’s shrouded in secrecy when it should be clear to everyone.
When I watched the game on TV I thought Rashford was offside as soon as it happened. I’m only going on what the cameras are showing as the match was broadcast, but it looked off.
I was quite shocked when it was given after VAR review.
The tolerance thing is understandable. There was a lot of complaining about decisions being given that were a fraction of a fingernail’s width, and that was deemed against the spirit of the game, even if technically correct. So now we have technically incorrect decisions being given, as the tolerance margin is factored in.
I’m almost at the point where I want VAR to be binned. It would mean we forget about the people off site in the booth because they would not be needed. Instead, we go back to the time when the referee and the assistant referees were completely in authority, and would make the decisions as they saw fit.
Could I live with that, knowing full well there would be mistakes?
I think I could!
It would feel purer, in a funny sort of way.
Left midfield is the biggest problem for me, Diaz has to keep coming to the halfway line to get the ball instead of terrorizing defenders higher up the pitch. With Thiago out it is like a black hole where Diaz is trying to fill two spots. Doesn’t leave room for Robbo to move into either.
We’ve gone from a system where you can be called offside despite being practically level with the defender, to a system where you can be called onside despite being objectively offside.
Well done everyone.
How about we just keep it simple. Have a quick look at a replay. If the lad looks offside give it offside. If it’s too close to tell, he’s level. Son had one ruled out against us where I was actually annoyed at sheer level pedantry going into filing him off.
There is no need to make this objective. All we really wanted was clear offsides called as such. One replay, a few seconds, eyesight test
Pretty sure most PL refs would fail that eye test.
Of course you’re right. Nothing will be done. No one will come in unless someone goes out. That’s the way it generally works. I had some hopes when I wrote that post that maybe Keita’s injury may have been a diplomatic one and that he was on his way but it does seem to have been genuine so he’s going nowhere before the deadline.
Without wanting to ignite the same boring debate I think those that wanted us to bring in another midfielder this summer are about to be proved right. The thing I hadn’t really considered, because it’s not something that’s ever been a problem under JK, is that we might have fucked up the pre-season. Something must have gone wrong to have so many players either injured or not fully fit. Usually we are right at it from day one but there is no intensity to our play at all. Everything and everyone is looking laboured right now.
We’ve gone from a system where you can be called offside despite being practically level to a system that will no longer do that. And yet the same people who were moaning about the outcomes produced by the prior approach are now getting the outcomes they want and are still fucking moaning.
For me, I had the third position…I would have loved to see some movement, but understood our squad was already a good size and accepted that Klopp didn’t seem to have much interest in moving out any more of the existing players, and without doing that someone new was very unlikely to come. If anything it would have been summed up by “trust Klopp.” That position is a lot less stable now in part because it certainly looks like we’ve made some miscalculations, and Klopp himself is now speaking in a way that, when squinting the right way, can be interpreted as possibly changing his mind as well.
Well yes, I doubt many fans would have objected to us getting someone in but it was a question of how realistic a prospect that was. I wasn’t fretting about it in the same way I was about the 3 CBs situation in 20/21. Starting to fret a bit now though.