Post Match | Newcastle vs Liverpool | Sunday August 27th 16:30h

I wouldn’t have given a red card but I don’t think it’s such a bad decision that I’m going to be worried about it.

I have no worries with Quansah coming in. Sure maybe he’ll play against Villa (off the bench probably) and make a mistake, because all young players make mistakes, but I’m confident in his ability that he’s a Premier League calibre player.

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Note that it requires the opportunity to be obvious, not somewhat of a possibility.

He would have had to hit it very quickly and required Virgil to be a bit back on his heels to think he’d have been able to do it without a challenge from Virgil.

I think this is one that once the ref has given people bend over to find a way to explain it, when had it not be given none but the most partisan who dont care whether their arguments are supprtable would have been demanding a red for it.

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It must have been obvious to the ref and that’s why he made that decision.I’m watching it again and he was already ahead of virgil at the point when he was fouled.If the foul didn’t happen he’d have got a shot off.We’d be argueing the exact same thing had that been one of our players.It’s a tough one to take but only because it was a red.Had it just been a freekick that resulted in a goal we wouldn’t even be discussing it.

Right, but that IS the bone of contention - the fact he did give a red.

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Isn’t the rule that if you deny an obvious goalscoring opportunity(virgil did by fouling him) and you are the last man(matip wasn’t getting back) then it’s a red.Some will say it wasn’t an obvious goalscoring opportunity and others will say it was,the ref being one of them.In this case it feels harsh because Isak could easily have missed but that’s not the point.It’s that the foul stopped the opportunity to shoot.It’s 1 of those which feels unfair and you know on another day won’t be given but I think the ref got it right.
He did however miss a number of Joelintons fouls(i counted 3/4 deserving a yellow).Newcastle going on about Trent deserving a 2nd yellow but nothing about their player deserving at least 3.The ref also didn’t give Gordon a yellow or us the free,instead booked Trent.These are the things the club should be argueing regularly behind the scenes if they feel there is an agenda against us.

Yes, that is my contention. Obviously we know the ref thought it was, but it’s the justification for saying that which I have an issue with.

Some people who typically know what they are talking about seem to be arguing that by fouling Isak Virgil is by default removed from consideration, and as Matip was in no position to do anything, if you take that interpretation than it is a clear Goal Scoring Opportunity. I think just think that is an absurd interpretation that people who are putting it forward have not thought through. What if the ball is played to Isak’s chest and Virgil challenges him from the back in a way the ref thinks is a foul. If the foul removes Virgil from consideration then the equivalent is imaging that Isak could bring the ball down on his chest unchallenged and if we think he can do that and shoot before Matip gets back then that would be a red card as well, and surely people acknowledge that as absurd.

The only alternative then is to say that Virgil was already beaten by the through ball, which I just think is not remotely defensible. This is what it looked like immediately prior to Virgil stepping across to nick it. If Isak got there first and beat virgil with his touch then was fouled then the red would be right. But that isnt what happened and I dont think you can look at that sequence and think that Isak would be able to get a shot off from there without still having had to beat Virgil somehow.

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Quite the leap, deciding what I understand as a foul.
Seems quote a lot of people don’t understand either.

Imo,at the point of contact,Isak was already ahead of Virgil, who wasn’t going to get back ahead of the forward to stop him getting a shot off.What we would then be relying on is a bad touch or a bad shot,both of which were denied to him by van Dijk catching him first.
If we deem it didn’t deserve a red i’m sure the club will challenge it as we did with Mac Allister.We might not win but we should challenge if we don’t agree with the sending off.

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He’s only in front because Virgil takes the line to the ball. If he didn’t do that and simply ran with Isak, it’s not a clear run at goal. It’s probably a tough argument to make to have the call overturned, but that’s my take.

Have a read of this @Rambler and @Sportbilly1966

I agree, Izaak is going away from goal.
Its not a foul, but even if it is, I believe its not a red card offence.

@Redbj makes a great observation on Brooks demeanour.
He was horny over his big decision to send off our captain.

A lot of over analysis going on… methinks.

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Yeah. His position in my screen shot is pretty much exactly where you’d want him to be in covering that run.

But my inability to be able to reconcile the arguments other people are making with what happened doesnt mean it would be fruitful to pursue this. There are lots of areas in football where you cannot make sense of a consensus opinion and I think antagonizing this any further is certain to go no where and more likely to rebound on us and make them take it on virgil for his reaction to the red.

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To be fair, if it is a foul, I think you can justify giving the red card there. Particularly with the still image I just saw where Isaak is pretty far ahead of VVD.

I still don’t think it was a foul though and think if that happened in the middle of the field on a pressing situation, that call isn’t going to be given.

There is no way we should appeal this one and I’m not surprised that VAR didn’t overturn it either. The referee didn’t make an obvious mistake. Just if you had another ref on another day, you probably don’t have this happen.

I know everyone’s biggest issue with refs is consistency or lack thereof, but the way the laws of the game are written and the directives given to referees, it leaves a lot of gray areas and each ref is going to call games slightly different. The best you can hope for is that the individual referee is generally consistent within the context of the same match or week to week.

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Van Dijk made a great tackle there and came out with the ball. problem is, he took Isak’s feet with the ball and in the new game that’s a grey area in the circumstances of the tackle. Van Dijk was last man, the tackle came from an angle which could be construed as “from behind”. Both of which, these are subjective decisions made by the referee who doesn’t have instant replay

However, the referees DO have video replay and how the 4th official and VAR have once again failed to do their job is quite appalling.

in past years that tackle would have been heralded as a master class in tackling to take the ball. I remember practicing hook slides when I was a kid learning how to do exactly that challenge cleanly as I played 20years of back line. 10 as a CB/sweeper and 10 as a fullback.

to summarize, that was an excellent challenge but today’s game doesn’t reflect that. only in the PL have they muddied the waters so badly that it’s impossible to tell which way a ref is going to make a decision.

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I read John Aldridge twitted that refs are using these 50-50s as a way to advance their agenda. Couldn’t agree any more really. We survived this time but there’s obviously something against us in the EPL today. Whether it’s from the FA, from the refs, or some other unknown body idk - but for football to be fun to watch again, this has to stop.
The FA has gotten too cocky and arrogant with the obvious success (popularity) of English football but if they don’t watch out (especially with Sh!tty winning every single league) its popularity will start to wane. Fairness is a prerequisite in any sport and they’re not even pretending to want to uphold it anymore.
/rant

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I don’t know if anyone else noticed but i didn’t like the 4th official repeatedly telling Klopp to sit down,like Klopp was some type of schoolboy.I think it happened at the sending off while Virgil was still on the pitch.

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Ultimately on reflection I agree with this.

The only reason I would appeal is if the length of the ban is longer than the standard 1 match.

The reaction to last weeks was shock, no one anywhere was even attempting to suggest that was a red.

This week it’s less so.

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Yes.
We should just roll over and let it all happen.
It will even out over the season.
City will get dubious red cards two matches in a row…wait, that won’t happen!

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Didn’t have a real problem with the red, in real time I said ‘fuck, he is off’, first reaction. Ball was going through, so was the attacker, and I don’t think it was going to be wide enough to preclude a goal scoring opportunity. Mostly, I was exasperated at the poor defence that set it all up, then VVD’s poor decision-making. Maybe we can win on appeal, but I am not holding my breath.

That said, that could turn out to be a defining game for the season. For Newcastle, that is the kind of match that mentally breaks teams. Doubts will be there about Howe now, in owners and players. Lots of pressure now on their very next match away to Brighton.

For our part, that is also the kind of game match that makes teams. There are some great player-level narratives that could begin right there:

i) TAA - shaky start, composed finish playing most of the match on a yellow matched up against a truly snide little prick like Gordon. Shook off the travesty of that yellow instead of a free kick (should have been a yellow on Gordon), delivered a Captain’s performance the rest of the way, right down to taking into the corner to close out the match.

ii) Darwin - obviously. Lots of doubts, maybe had some of his own. Could be a real watershed for him

iii) Szoboslai - weren’t many doubts, by contrast, but he showed a remarkable high end. Toon were keying their press on him at one point, and they just gave up. I presume Howe changed his instructions at half, because they seldom tried to get the two-man press right on him in the second half - because he never put a foot wrong against it in the first half

iv) Quansah - a stand-up and be counted game for him. The rest of the side will look at him differently now. Nothing exceptional now, but I expect his confidence to build.

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Yeah my friend who is a Newcastle fan was questioning the subs Howe made and their second half performance in general.

It maybe a bit of a blessing in disguise both guys stood up yesterday who have been criticised by me included. With a functioning CM in front it might bode well. It’s likely they may get more games in the EL where they play together.

Never really feel like it but the longer it went 1-0 I thought just one break our way and we might get one.

Then when it did I thought fuck we might even win it especially as their reaction was terrible.

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