Not sure which of us has been drinking.
Comes down to who decides what’s offensive. It’s absurd for me to be offended by the word Klopp. But if I am, am I justified in asking for it not to be used on this forum? Utterly absurd. But who judges?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Again, my offense is not required to see a racism for what it is.
Focusing on whether someone is offended is a dumb rhetorical trick that allows you to try to advance these arguments based on logical fallacies.
this is a really interesting point to be honest and it should be a no brainer…
but how much of this ‘post COVID’ (i call it, debate of nothingness due to both sides of the divide just wanting to petty point score…
it should be a non event, the fact it isnt might be indicative of how much of a faceless nanny state we have become…
ill give you a random unrelated example that if you can try to intepret would be great…
my elderly father stopped in a loading bay to get my mother some much required elderly products from outfront of the chemist, he was stopped for a few seconds in an area he shouldnt have by the letter of the law, but anyone with a modicum of common decency would offer it to him 10 times over…
he has been booked via a photo of a bylaws officer driving by who took an ‘evidence photo’…obviously we are now obliged to get online and try to explain the situation and get the fine removed, there is an avenue, but its a fucking painful one…
wouldnt it have been better to have an on foot officer approach him and ask him to move on, maybe even assist him (the officer works for the local council, it his his/her actual job to assist the public) or else he would need to fine him?..there wouldnt be a person in our whole district that would take the additude of ‘fuck you, im glad you got fined’…its a loading bay, im sure even the most angry delivery driver would have probably helped Dad at that moment…
granted its not as big a battle as institutionalised racism…but its just another case of having zero say, zero recourse apart from some faceless online email address…
if you are wondering why the left and the right are pushing back on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE regardless of its merit, its simply because we have lost so much control in our everyday life, its just mass produced blanket decisions…
i know anyone can pick shit through my strenuous example, its got loopholes all the way through it in regards to the two situations…what im trying to reply to, is the comment about what we argue about in 2023…
ten years ago, Klopptomist was probably the kinda guy that would take his custom elsewhere, nowadays hes a growing percentage of people who just dont want to see faceless people dictating to individuals on every single aspect…and yes, its getting absurd…
Which seems to be the heart of this issue.
Not sure that logical fallacies are slippery slopes?
Slippery Slope arguments (which is distinct from arguing about the down stream effects of something) are a type of logical fallacy.
And yet they seem to be true. Thin end of the wedge and all.
Racisim is wrong no two ways about it. Any racism to any colour.
If someone is offended, it’s no big deal to modify behaviour or speech. Example, in the 70’s growing up in Liverpool, we used to say coloured for black. It wasn’t offensive, my black mates didn’t think it was offensive. Now, it has become offensive, it’s no problem for me to refer to people as black instead of coloured.
If somebody is super hyper sensitive to anything then I just limit my dealings with that person.
The problem is seeing racism where there is none. Which is what some are determined to do. That’s your argument backwards. Just because someone says something is racist doesn’t mean it is. (Talking in a general sense, not about these pub owners).
Example, dressing up as a black person. Does that make the film White Chicks racist? In Brixton, London there is a magazine titled Black is beautiful. Would a magazine titled White is beautiful be racist? Is it racist to say most rapes are commited by white men?
It’s a mine field.
Did you think she was pregnant and she wasn’t? Saw that happen once🤣
If someone who looks old as dinosaurs and has bad hips gave up his seat for me on the bus, its kinda offensive… 
Now you are getting into white lives matter territory.
We’re not talking about a level playing field here, are we?
I don’t know the magazine ‘Black is Beautiful’ but I would imagine it’s a reaction to centuries of the concept of beauty within society being largely limited to white people? There has never needed to be a movement to assert and champion the cause of white beauty.
All these ‘would it be racist to say these things about white people’ arguments fail to take into account all the many years of structural racism and oppression that has led to that kick back
Do white lives matter? Are white people beautiful? Of course, but society has never suggested they aren’t, unlike with black people.
Yep just quote the bit that suits your narrative.
Is the White Chicks film racist?
So where does it end? How long should the push back be?
Not really. Just pointing out you only seem to see racism one way. Or is racism against white people ok because of the slave trade.
Have ‘White Chicks’ generally suffered centuries of structural racism and oppression to the the extent that a film gently mocking them is problematic?
As a white person, I feel like I can take a bit of piss taking, parody, or fun poking without it tapping into to centuries of oppression, and affecting my ability to get on in life.
I’m always amused that the kind of people who take such umbrage at the most mild and trivial examples of perceived racism towards white people are also usually the same people throwing around the term ‘snowflakes’ at people fighting against systems of oppression many times more impactful and damaging.
I had to think about this one for a minute. Firstly whether there is such a thing, I suppose there is but is that a reaction from non whites being abused by white people?
Purely speaking on skin colour of course. Cultural racism is a different angle.
Apologies if I’m off base with this, I honestly find this topic a proper minefield and one I try to avoid, mainly due to fear of being miles off course, or offensive.
By the way, I’m not defending the film ‘White Chicks’. I had to look it up, and my god it looks shit.
I’m just pointing out that anyone holding it up as an example of racism towards white people needs to get fucking real and stop being silly.
Have your people suffered centuries of oppression?Obviously not because of their colour,but is there a legacy of oppression,cultural or otherwise,which you could tap into.
It is shit,don’t even bother looking at it.
Maybe i’m wrong but i don’t think he was talking about the film itself,more the idea that it’s not ok for a white person to do blackface but it is ok for a black person to do whiteface,or in this case completely white.
A few years back at a circuits class that I attended, the instructor asked me if I’d “seen Neil lately?”. I replied that I’d attended Neil’s (another instructor) Boxercise class the day earlier. So she replied, “not him, the other Neil”.
Now I knew who she meant. The ‘other’ Neil had black skin. As we didn’t know either of their surnames, I asked her “the other Neil?”. She became flustered and said “he’s tall”. I feigned ignorance. “he’s got a shaved head, like you”. Still I pretended that I had no idea what she was talking about? “He usually wears a green Under Armour tee shirt”.
This went on as she described him trying not to use his skin colour. I put her out of her misery and asked “Do you mean Black Neil?”.
She’d skirted around using the word ‘Black’ in case I found it offensive on his behalf?
I’m old enough to remember when the days when using horrible words to describe people of different skin colour were common parlance. In those days “coloured” was acceptable as a ‘nicer’ description. Since then acceptable terms have been “Black” and “Person of colour”. I’m not even sure what the acceptable address is nowadays?
Like I’ve said elsewhere regarding gender and pronouns. I’ve lived nearly 63 years and seen and heard many changes. I never intend to be insulting, but just hope that folk don’t jump on something that I might say inadvertantly? 
Unfortunately, that’s what frequently happens. And the irony is that it’s usually white people taking offence on behalf of coloured people.
Generally I’ve found well intentioned mistakes or misunderstandings don’t cause issues. It’s when people double down on those mistakes and insist the issue with other person that problems arise.
Yes, I opened a door for somebody who looked like a lady once. Got balled out for it.