Fair point. 
1 Like
We could open a new thread title though… Arguing for the Sake of Arguing :0)
With sub threads for 5 minute arguments or 10 minute arguments.
1 Like
What about those of us who,want to argue for 8 minutes? Where’s our voice?
That’s ‘8 minute argumentistism’ that is. 
4 Likes
Well the going rate is one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten. If you simply go for the block booking and give up after 8 minutes you’ll get want you want.
Seriously, there’s no pleasing some people.
4 Likes
a) Could even have a full 24hr session…
b) A come home from the pub ‘all-nighter’ ding-dong
c) Drunk versus Sober contests…
The list becomes endless… how come no posters have come up with this idea sooner :0)
1 Like
I really dislike this thread, because there seems to be a need to label people on the strenght of a simple statement.
Its some call to suspect someone harbours racist attitudes, willingly or subconsciously because they use the expression PC nonsense.
Massive call, and ignoring his correct assertion that we don’t know him, or how he treats people.
4 Likes
Women like people, men like things. Simple really.
Stereotyping?
That’s all true.
But I think at the heart of this whole debate is a massive talking at cross purposes about what we mean by the word ‘racism’.
That word is triggering to some, because it conjures images of your 1970s style overt racists. But we can be clear that this kind of naked, balls out racism in today’s society is quite rare, which is why it feels so jarring when it pops up, and why it elicits such disgust.
Just to be clear, on those terms, I don’t think anyone in this forum is racist, or at least aren’t displaying it here.
(Having said that, the example of the Gollywog public and, is about as nakedly old school racist as you can get, so it surprising to see a few people here describing it as ‘cancel culture’.)
But as society has evolved, and as we move towards a more equal society, then what we understand as racism has to change as well. Racism doesn’t end with us all slapping each other on the back because we don’t shout abuse at black people any more.
What we do have left over, now the most egregious examples of racism have been (sort of) expunged from polite society is a society that is still remarkably unfair for people of colour. Where there is a surface veneer of equality, but still a deep rooted structural inequality that needs to be challenged.
What I do see here, in some people, is a denial that this exists, a sneering tone of mockery towards attempts to challenge that structural racism, a staunch refuse to acknowledge the problematic nature of their own attitudes, and a fearful protectionist attitude towards their own privilege.
This is the vanguard of the racism issue in 2023. The 1970s style racism is fucking easy. We can all read examples of monkey chanting at the football and condemn that.
But can we (white people) also act to create a society where people are not discriminated in employment because of their colour? Can we also break the linkages between race and poverty? Can we make sure criminal justice does not fall heavier on people of colour? Can recognise our own deep seated, in obvious biases and do whatever we can to negate them? Can we not hold up the few people of colour who get through the net as evidence there isn’t a problem? Can we do all these things in the full awareness that it means as white people we are likely to have to give up a little of our privilege to do so?
A phrase I’m fond of is that from a position of privilege, any attempt to create equality feels like oppression. So can we overcome that base instinct to kick out against all the little things we perceive we can no longer do or say, and understand that such things are necessary for the equal society we all claim to want?
1 Like
Yes. It’s also true. Stereotypes tend to be, much to the disgust of those who like being disgusted.
But when society reinforces those stereotypes, they become self-perpetuating.
There are some really great female potential engineers out there. What a waste it would for society to force them into nursing because that’s what society thinks a woman should do.
1 Like
All jokes aside and a straight direct comment. I honestly think you’ve been on one too many training courses.
Confirmation bias seems to be strong here. I can break your post down and explain further but fundamentally I reject your assertion that (in this case England) is institutionally racist. You’ll cite the MET and that maybe true but they don’t represent the country as a whole.
Go to a hospital. Then go to a garage.
Done.
And I think you have been on far too few.
It’s interesting that the phrase “privilege” is now used in terms of inequality (e.g. white privilege, male privilege) rather than “disadvantage”.
I’m not sure when that became common because, in terms of statistical analysis of population groups, there was always a case of determining and addressing disadvantages and relative disadvantage (e.g. whether there is a difference between working class boys compared to working class girls in education).
The problem with referring to “privilege” is that someone who is white, for example, probably doesn’t feel particularly privileged even though the same person would probably accept that someone who was black likely faced societal disadvantages that they didn’t face.
I wish the ridiculous question thread would be active like this 
You use the term structural inequality and I fully understand where you are coming from.
But I personally don’t cite a few successful black people as a rule that some sort of equity exists.
And I can state, with a degree of confidence that meritocracy is more and more evident in health work, in Ireland at least.
Colour, creed, nationality are secondary in most promotional posts as people are being enabled to showcase talent.
And that is not holding up a few as evidence of change, it is stating fact.
I understand how the criminal justice systems, society is still a bit away from equity for all.
And that isn’t solely related to colour.
1 Like
The issue has always been more about attracting men into nursing. A friend of mine took it up after the Gulf War (he had been in the Royal Army Medical Corps) and when he did the initial training there were only 3 men out of a class of 60.
He said what has helped in perception is TV programmes like Casualty that have shown strong male nursing characters. However there are far too many professions where they suffer from being regarded as “women’s work”.
2 Likes
Sorry, but to reject institutional racism at this point is just silly. It’s overwhelming. The police are not an outlier, although sheer scale of the issue with the police may be notable.