Yeah, go for it. What do you want to say.
I don’t think they should be allowed to compete in women sports. With all due respect to transrights. They’ve got all the rights to live as per their choices , just that I don’t want to see a better version of fallon fox beating up women in MMA.
Don’t label me anything. Just believe it’s unfair on the other athletes.
Transexual rights are just that rights(ones which can’t be denied for a human being to live with dignity). Sports on the other hand is another
Here’s one, just occurred to me. Let’s say the following things are true.
An adult female has no hormonal treatment and “just” identifies as a man. Could he compete against women?
Same person then has full surgery, again without the hormones. Could he compete?
Aside from some possible weight loss, no actual physical advantage.
I appreciate that the hormones are an important aspect but I’m sure (if it really mattered to the person) they could have the one without the other.
Same question about Men. Now there’s a thinking point.
That’s the decision that British Cying have made, and the start of the latest round of activity in this thread.
I don’t think anyone has said they disagree with that decision. I said a couple of days ago, it’s probably the least worst option out of a load of shit options.
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Other posters have much more knowledge of this that I do, but I don’t think competing in female sports has ever been as simple as just identifying as a woman and getting permission to complete. It’s usually a lot more scientific than this, with trans women having to fall within limits for muscle mass, hormones, etc.
One of the problems with this debate is that people just assume you can say you’re a women and your allowed to race against women. That’s never really been the case.
Didn’t follow that convo.
The only thing i’ll say is someone in the top 150’s in men’s tennis coming out as trans , It’s a given that the person in question is going to set all the records in women’s tennis. It goes much deeper than that.
Once the outliers in sports are taken care of amongst other things , I believe that transgender persons are fully entitled to live their life of dignity.
You can’t beat bone weight and density. Someone who’s undergone puberty and then has had a sexual realignment surgery will have those advantages that a biological woman doesn’t.
That’s not my point. If you change nothing chemically in your body (thus gaining no advantage) should you be able to compete in your previous sex’s sport?
What’s more important? Competing fairly or competing in the grouping of X. X being that which you aspire to be / become.
It’s surely an alternative.
No, that’s understandable, and why on balance the decision by British Cycling is probably correct. I’d imagine other sports following suit, depending on how much physicality is a factor.
It’s the type where you can still get something for the weekend. I now prefer to get a Sainsbury’s prawn tikka
Surely most sports do? There’s also a cultural aspect to this though. Take snooker, go to any hall / club in the country it will be (or was last time I went) 99% male. So men are more likely to play snooker culturally. No physical advantage required but there’s no question that a male would be more likely to be introduced to the game at a young age than a female thus getting an advantage. Male transitions to female and plays in female snooker. Can that advantage be quantified as it certainly exists? It’s not just physical.
Deep stuff.
Poker as another example. Not a sport but a pass-time. Currently I play poker weekly with about 20 men. Have advertised it locally and men would rather play. A few women play at the highest level but the winners are almost always men. That’s not that men are better at the game, they’re just more likely to play. Same I think with chess.
Name me a female Michlan chef? Are women worse chefs? Worse managers? Worse organisers? Hell no but it’s the men that get the success and the limelight. It’s not just physical, it’s also deeply cultural.
Hélène Darroze.
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You mean, can a Transwomen compete alongside the men she used be considered with?
I have absolutely no idea, but there are likely to be two problems.
Firstly, I understand transitioning will always involve some kind of hormonal replacement therapy, so the transwomen is immediately going to be at a significant disadvantage to the men she is competing against.
Secondly there is the matter of dignity. She is a women. Competing against men would be an affront to her dignity and self determination. It would be similar to suggesting a CIS woman who is an outlier in terms of strength and power go and compete with the men, because she is bigger and stronger than the other CIS women.
This is why in the case of physical sports I’ve settled on the compromise that if you are a trans-women you just can’t compete. It’s not fair on the women’s division, and it’s not fair on them in the men’s division. It’s shitty, but there isn’t a way through it that I can see.
I mentioned to you that I have a few Trans friends, and this has come up. Their uniform opinion is that they just can’t be arsed with it. They’ll happily sacrifice competitive sports if it means people will leave them alone and let them be who the want to be. One said transitioning is so traumatic, that the right to compete in competitive sports should really be the last thing on anyone’s mind. She was thinking more about ‘Will my family disown me?’ ‘Will I be able to keep my job?’ ‘Will I be able to leave my house without getting abuse?’. I suppose, though, if you are an aspiring professional athlete, you are going to think differently - after all, it is your job.
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I’ve never really understood why Snooker is gendered to be honest. There doesn’t really seem any logic beyond the cultural gender stereotyping you’ve mentioned, for that division to exist.
I get that. I suppose the situation then is a choice. Transition or compete professionally. What means more to you.
Would be interesting to know this factually. I can well imagine the advantages of female / male hormones but to carry on competing post transition, a requirement?
This is where it has become massively over complicated, and no disrespect intended to the wishes of trans women.
To allow them to compete, they would be potentially treating 99% of female athletes unfairly, in order to treat 1% fairly.
I guess the cycling authorities saw this and diffused it.
Nah, they are every bit as selective and hypocritical in their reading. Way back in the '90s, I had a girlfriend who worked as a server at Red Lobster and had the pleasure of serving them. As she wryly noted, they ate as much shellfish and lobster as anyone. Leviticus 18:22 is meant to be taken seriously, but Leviticus 11:9-12 is optional
Leviticus 11:9-12 — Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales — whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water — you are to detest. And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat.
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Biggest load of ridiculous fiction ever written