They key isn’t that we need to just cover Ox and Keita’s minutes, it’s that we need to cover the minutes they should have played in order to avoid overplaying the other players and hopfully reduce injuries across the board as a result.
Bajcetic and Elliott probably played more than we would have actually wanted them to. Not because they didn’t deserve it on merit, but overplaying youngsters isn’t ideal.
That’s not too many mins though.
Milner: 43 games, 1285 mins
Ox: 13 games, 493 mins
Keita: 13 games, 488 mins
For comparison
Elliott: 46 games, 2267 mins
Thiago: 28 games, 1963 mins
It’s happening.
Twitter doesn’t give out green lights willy nilly.
Looking at the discussion as ‘x needs to replace y’ is the wrong framing of the question, both in terms of minutes to replace and the style of player.
If we’re using a different system to the majority of last season there are new requirements. I notice nobody is including Trent as a midfielder despite the fact he spends an awful lot of his time in midfield.
How many midfielders do we have? How many do we need? These are surely the relevant questions.
With 1 signing we probably have 2 players for every position in the box midfield. One spare if Gakpo is also in line to get minutes in there. That might be enough.
Another hybrid type player like Zinchenko, Stones, Timber etc would give Klopp a nice option though.
I actually make it 7 players for the 3 positions:
Mac & Jones LCM
Szobo & Elliott RCM
Lavia, Thiago & Baj DM
Trent.
Are we still pretending Trent is just a right back?
I’ll revisit it in a few months then.
Potential derailment alert…
Trent will be talked about as the best footballer in the world in the next 12 months.
Fact.
Given Bradley started at RB yesterday but continually came to CM, I still assume the system will mean Trent is doing that role - guess its a hybrid role?
Either way, in the bigger games, you’d expect Trent to be in the RB position moving to CM, rather than starting in CM in the box formation/system we are seeing at the moment.
Chuck Gakpo in as well. Think I’m going to start campaigning on this one.
Well yeah. But the reason Henderson and Fabinho had to play so much last year was the litany of injuries suffered by the rest of our options. As much as we don’t need to replace the minutes of Ox and Keita, we do still need the options to avoid overplaying those replacing Henderson and Fabinho.
Thiago is getting towards Ox/Keita status for me when in comes to injuries. He’s nice to have in the squad when he’s fit but you can’t rely on that in any way, shape or form. He’s also off next summer anyway so how much stock do we really want to put in him? I also wouldn’t be surprised to see a Saudi club come calling for him too.
Elliott probably shouldn’t have played as much football as he has done so far and we’ve already broken Bajcetic once. Milner probably played more than you want for a 37 year old but less than you’d want for what was probably our first midfield option off the bench. If Lavia is the one coming in, he still needs to be carefully managed too given his age and relative inexperience.
If we’re serious about a tilt at the title, want to compete for the Europa as another piece of silverware and a backup route to the CL and don’t just want to sacrifice the cups then I don’t think one more is enough.
Mac, Szobo and Lavia (or someone like him) as your new preferred three then leaves Thiago (when fit), Jones, Elliott and Bajectic as back up. Just feels we’re one semi-long injury to someone and a Thiago twinge away from feeling very thin again.
I’d rather we did two more this summer, even if that means we perhaps look to be carrying an extra one for this season. Let Thiago go next summer and if Bajcetic is ready to step up then we don’t replace him. But this season we don’t take the risk as we have to get back into the Champions League.
Just read the first line of your post and I thought here we go, major thread derailment….
He spends more time in midfield than he does at right back in most of the games, so it’s as much a midfield position as it is a defensive one. Even in some defensive phases of the game he will stay in midfield.
We’ve already seen this with Stones, and how he’s transitioned from it being seen as more of a ‘hybrid right back’ role to a midfield one. Same will happen with Trent.
That’s because he’s a right back and not a midfielder.
Just because he’s stepping into more of a central role when we attack instead of overlapping down the wing does not mean he’s now a midfielder. When we start games, there are still the other three actual midfielders on the pitch with him.
Just because he’s put as a right back on a piece of paper doesn’t mean he plays anything like a traditional right back.
He’s in midfield for the start of our build up play, not just when we attack. He’s in midfield for the first defensive transition. He’s at right back when the opposition is deep in our half. Salah also ends up at right back at times, maybe he’d be better known as an advanced right back
If only we had a central midfield thread or Trent thread
Let’s take a look at last year’s minutes for each of the players comparing last season’s team with this seasons, assuming things happen as expected and the two go to SA and we get Lavia. Now, take into account that doing this analysis strongly disadvantages the players coming in because absolutely both Szoboszlai and Mac Allister would have played more minutes if more were on offer but they are limited by the competitions their respective teams were in. So here goes
Expected 23/24 Midfield (22/23 mins across all comps)
Lavia 2,536'
Mac Allister 3,308'
Szoboszlai 3,708'
Elliott 2,265'
Thiago 1,963
Jones 1,215'
========================
14,995 total midfield minutes
Last Season's Midfield (22/23 mins across all comps)
Fabinho 3,538'
Henderson 2,558'
Elliott 2,265'
Thiago 1,963
Milner 1,284'
Jones 1,215'
Carvalho 728'
Ox 491'
Keita 486'
Melo 256'
=======================
14,774 total midfield minutes
So in effect we are more than covering the minutes of 10 midfielders with only 6 players. That’s before even taking into account the possibility of Trent being a genuine midfielder next year.
The only disadvantage of cutting down to 5 is the increased risk to injury, but we will be going into the season for the first time in forever with only Jones the likely one to fall over and break his leg in a light breeze. Plus there is Trent on top of that. I don’t see how Klopp could justify to another player how he will give that player the minutes he is after. Keep in mind, one of the reasons Fab and Hendo are leaving is likely that they won’t get the minutes of playing time they are seeking any more.
If Trent is a midfielder, aren’t we using 4 midfielders rather than 3?
Melo played 256mins??
Holy sheet.