The point is that we all pretty much agree that Barnes is a legend. We’d all (I expect) have him in and around our best eleven.
And yet, Sadio’s numbers are much, much, better. He scored goals at almost double the rate of Barnes.
Suggesting Sadio isn’t an LFC legend, to me, is either a little bitter, or regency bias. Yes, Mane had spells out of form. But, you know what? So did Barnes (or any other player). We just don’t remember that because either it’s before out time or the memory has cast aside the shit games.
Put it this way, if you’re putting together an all time LFC first eleven, John Barnes was always the shoo in on the left. I don’t, post Sadio, think that’s quite as cut and dried as it used to be.
It’s a good point. We’ve actually got a new front three over the past two seasons… whilst still having at least two of the old front three. I think the idea is to have a relatively gradual transition whilst still having enough game time for everyone to be happy/acclimate/bed in. Our long term planning looks pretty sound.
@Limiescouse isnt disagreeing with your overall point as far as i can see - just your comparison of numbers. It isnt double if you only look at Pre-injury Barnes, its pretty much on a par.
Yes compare that to Grealish who gets a freekick every time he even thinks of faling over you know what a bias shite load of referee’s we have in the PL.
Reality is that he would have a ‘small’ chance to win a few major trophies (PL/CL) here at Liverpool but is almost guaranteed to win two league titles and two German cup titles - or even more - with Bayern in the next three years.
We as Liverpool fans might laugh about this but those trophies are going to make him an even bigger hero in his home country - or even in Africa. And who are we to him compared to his people in Senegal.
Sadio will get the realistic chance of winning the golden boot or to be the best player in one of the better leagues.
Not disagreeing but I do wonder how many assists Barnes had? I have this persistent memory of him feeding Aldridge etc. with little cut backs from the by line. I remember that more than his goals and have been longing for us to get back to that way of playing, especially against deep lying defences.
Not to belittle Mane’s contribution at all. I’m sad he’s gone but also excited at the prospect of Diaz and Darwin.
Yeah, a debate to be had for sure. Different people, different opinions.
But to me, a teenager in the 80s, John Barnes is the first name on my team sheet. The talent he had, post injury he turned into a completely different player yet with high quality. Shame the Redknapp/Barnes midfield had to have David James and a weak defence behind it. Barnes turned into a pass machine before Xavi was ever known.
For all those too young to have seen John Barnes, please take a few minutes to read this well written summary of Barnes.
Mane’s versitility enables him to play anywhere in the front three, but he wouldn’t be able to reinvent himself in midfield if he’d had the injuries that Barnes had.
Plus the 80s was a different planet when it came to racism then today.
Anyway, Mane leaves with his head held high, and has for many years been part of a team that has won our mojo back.
I have to disagree on the point about Mané not being able to reinvent himself. His natural strength and ball shielding skills mean he could easily play as a deep lying midfielder. Plus his tenacity in the tackle would mean he’d be able to win back possession and pass it out quickly when his ball carrying abilities wane
The bolded is a point that to be made has to ignore my counter point - that for literally a full half of his liverpool career Barnes was not a forward. Doing a straight goals to games comparison is meaningless. It’s also a point that doesnt have to made, because even if you use the fairer comparison I provided, 120 in 267 vs 61 in 140 Sadio is still fractionally ahead. Coming in the same ball park as the period of peak LW Barnes is enough to be a legend. Pipping him slightly solidifies it.
We gave them a parade for not winning the league or CL. They win the league by the first week of April and get pelters for not doing it with enough style, with enough goals, and not doing the Bundesliga and Eurovision Song Contest double.
How many high profile African players are there or have there been in the Bundesliga? Bayern are the team mostly likely to draw foreign eyes to the league I cannot recall them having any in recent memory. Benatia was there for a small period but was not successful, but cannot think of a single other African player they’ve had.
I think that has be viewed in the context of who is playing on those leagues. When was the last time a high profile African star was in the Bundesliga?
From my understanding, Barnes was more of a creator type of player (who also had very good numbers), Mane is more of a forward type of player (who is also more than just a runner into space and goalscorer). It’s just unfair to only compare numbers of games and goals. Different eras also. Both are club legends, Barnes is arguably overall one of the very best players of this club’s history. Mane’s glory will be more (but not only of course) into a positional one, like one of the best wide players of Liverpool for a few decades.
Prior to his arrival a lot of the liverpool game was build around straight balls for Rush to run onto. Aldo did not provide that threat…he was more of a traditional striker who thrived on balls inot the box (which Barnes provided a lot of) and so it was Barnes who largely replaced Rush’s threat in behind. Look at any compilations of Barnes goals and while you see a bunch of mazy dribbles, you’ll also see a good number of out to in runs in behind.
