You have to factor in that if you’re vaxed you can be carrying the virus and not tested so the figures look like being vaxed massively reduces transmission. If there is a study that has actually tested this and the ability of a vaxed person to carry and spread the virus vs a non vaxed person I haven’t seen it. Happy to be shown though, can’t have too much science 
Why do you think you are any less likely to get tested if youre infected when vaxed than if you’re unvaxed?
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Because if you’re vaxed you have a MUCH higher chance of being asymptomatic.
After all, that’s the point.
I suspect you know far better than be how swift and effective the body’s immune system can be but it isn’t instant. There’s no question that a full tilt COVID patient coughing and spluttering round a shop without a mask is an absolute bomb. But I’m yet to see a study that proves that you can’t pass it on if you are vaxed.
You have a symptom it seems. Quick, test yourself!!!
(I’ll take my coat.)
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weekly occurance these days.
You’re seemingly confusing the presence of symptoms with bad clinical outcomes, and they are not the same thing. The typical symptoms (outside of those that require hospitalization) come from the immune response to infection not the infection itself. So assuming we’re using being vaxed vs unvaxed as surrogates for being able to generate an immune response then you’re actually less likely to go completely asymptomatic if you’re vaxed. Sure, you might develop only mild symptoms you can overlook and work through, but you’re more likely to get them, and will so earlier after infection (meaning less opportunity to pass it to someone else with an appropriate response to the symptoms and subsequent positive test).
And no one has ever said that the Vax can prevent it being passed on. That’s moving the goal posts when the statement was it reduces the risk of spreading it. The effect is definitely lower with Omicron, but it is still present and still a good reason to get vaxed if not yet (or get boosted if eligible).
As to your initial point, I’d say it’s likely the other way around. I mean, there is clearly a cohort bias that exists when comparing vaxed vs unvaxed that extends to acceptance of other behaviors related to the pandemic. I’d say that you are more likely to see someone dismissive of symptoms or risk of infection after exposure (and thus avoid testing because they dont believe in quarantine) if they are still unvaxed.
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This is what I struggle with.
There is a pseudoscience approach, to justify rationale. I can sort of get people looking at side effect reports and thinking that looks a bit scary. Or similarly thinking it looks a bit rushed given extraordinary speed it was developed. I don’t blame people for not having a good grasp of risk.
What I don’t get is the dismissal of one medical treatment (side effects, composition, trails, pharma benefiting government) but then advocating Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin.
It’s like being scared of flying because you dont trust Boeing engineers. But then strapping on a helmet and trying a prototype jet pack.
If they applied the same rationale for not taking the vaccines, how the hell are Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin options ?
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This is what I’ve struggled to articulate, perfectly expressed. People refusing to have the vaccination and instead pumping themselves with horse dewormers and fish tank detergents. It’s absolutely batshit.
I’ve far more tolerance for people waving crystals around their heads and stuff like that. At least their is a consistency to their delusion.
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Ivermectin is a little easier as there’s alledgedly huge story of massive success in India, followed by a clamp down by the FDA (enemy) and politicians thus continuing the feed of profits to big Pharma through vaccines.
Shame that they didn’t actually bother to read why the paper on Ivermectin was withdrawn.
These are good points on Hydroxy and Ivermectin. I actually said that to him! I said if you are suspicious about a vaccine that has now seen 500M+ doses administered in America, and is thus proven (yes, even with some possible risks, the benefits FAR outweigh those risks) how can you advocate taking these other drugs?
He then started to talk about how they were shut down by big Pharma, and that they were effective treatments if taken early on. He talked about some studies on that, and then how the media had moved everything in the direction of the vaccine, when lots of doctors - in fear of their reputation and perhaps livelihood - advocated the treatments he talked about.
As the conversation progressed that’s when I started to conclude that we are living in an increasingly post-truth world. Everyone has their own set of facts. Everyone has their own truth. It is illogical and ridiculous, but that’s what it seems like.
Oh, and on a related note, he also knew my friend who died, 50 yrs old, and his funeral is on Saturday. Didn’t take the vaccine. Healthy. Got covid. Deteriorated and died. His obituary conveniently said he died from pneumonia and not covid pneumonia. It’s almost as if the virus is being airbrushed out.
Anyway, I asked him why he thought this fella died, and instead of admitting it was because he wasn’t vaccinated, he said it was because he received no treatment, and by the time he went to the hospital it was too late. He doubled down on the viewpoint that Hydroxy or Ivermectin would have done the trick, if administered early doors.
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I’ve a similar story through a teammate of mine. likes his gym workouts, quite a big fella. thinks vaccinations were a joke, how healthy he is and all that. caught Covid, ended up in a coma for three weeks and lost 55 lbs. nearly died and orphaned his kids.
Doesn’t think it’s a joke anymore, but says “he would have gotten sick anyways”.
Fuck me…
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It is truly batshit to suggest that ‘Big Pharma’ is responsible for suppressing ivermectin (Merck - Big Pharma) and hydroxychloroquine (generic) in favour of Pfizer (Big pharma) and Moderna (not really Big Pharma at all).
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I could imagine investing lots of time into it with him, and people of that ilk, and getting absolutely nowhere. World’s gone off the deep end.
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I tested positive today and have mild symptoms. I hate to think what state I might be in now, if I hadn’t had both vaccinations and the booster.
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We all make very few of our decisions based on a full conscious evaluation of all the facts. Instead, we develop heuristics based on things said by people we trust, and often on what simply feels right in our gut. The result is, we rarely have well thought out explanations for why we come to any decision. We might create one after the fact that connects dots, but it is generally not really why we came to the decision we did. This isnt an issue of intelligence whereby smart people think for themselves and dumb people follow heuristics . This is true for all of us.
The challenge today is that within society we have a strain of opposition defiance in which the heuristic is based almost exclusively on rejection of expertise and government - I dont know what I believe today, but I know whatever you believe in tomorrow I will oppose. So, when the government says to get the Vax, I will oppose it. Instead I will look for approaches to managing the pandemic that the FDA do not approve of. If they outright reject one of my ideas I will doubly support that. So, the fact that the stated rationale for thinking Ivermectin is a good choice is contradiction of their stated reason for not wanting to get vaxed is beside the point. Neither stated rationale is really what is driving the decision, it’s just what their mind has settled on to make sense of where they’ve arrived it. Because of this, no amount of refuting their argument will change them, because their stated argument is not really their reason.
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Pleased it’s mild for you mate. Hope you make a speedy recovery with no lingering after effects 
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Thank you, I’m sure I’ll be ok. It does come as a bit of a shock, when you see the result. First time for me, throughout the pandemic.
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Do you have any idea how or when you got exposed? I;ve seen some wild shit in the last couple of weeks, both in terms of the ease with which is can spread, and situation in which it seemed impossible for someone to not get it yet they didnt (a mate who spent 2 days in a case with his positive wife neither of whom were wearing masks)
I think it might have been on New Year’s Eve. We went to a pub early, about 4.30 and only stayed for about an hour. The pub wasn’t particularly busy at that time either, but that’s the only time I can recall, when I could’ve been exposed.
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Good luck WooltonRed, hopefully it stays mild and you are back on your feet soon, ready to do a job in midfield in the Carabao Cup if necessary!
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