The Manchester United Thread: That's It. That's the Joke (Part 1)

I don’t think it has anything to do with money. The other clubs were interested in him but seemed to realise that he wasnt worth the price tag… And only Man utd made him a priority (which seeing as they already had the likes of rashford , greenwood , martial ) makes it a questionable transfer…

The squad is unbalanced and the tactics are dated(almost fergy era like and the game has moved on from that). Too much was made of attempting to press the ball when trent and robbo had possession without realizing the fact that Liverpool’s midfielders can create chances too… Ole did the opposite of what managers generally do when facing Liverpool… They pack their midfield to ensure liverpools midfielders struggle with pressing and getting the second ball… And they deny liverpools wingbacks opportunities to cross…

This was a masterclass in what ought to not be done for a football game.

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Yup I think that’s sadly it, they look seriously crap this season.

They would have won those Villa and Everton matches in previous years even if we still beat them.

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Tbh, with a more progressive, tactically astute manager the Sancho purchase was a good one for United.

Greenwood Rashford Sancho ought to be their front line for 10 years.

Ronaldo was a stupid piece of business. They would have been better served going the extra steps to get Rice.

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And even sancho would have been a better choice on the wings yesterday than the likes of greenwood…even in his worst form of his career

And yes… Sancho would have been a good transfer for United if they didnt move in for Ronaldo.

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I haven’t seen anything to suggest this is some sort of revenge. Utd appear to have been the only club with a solid offer for him, and without any evidence of other clubs being likely to come in for him it makes little sense for him to wait.

A good manager could do wonders with Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho and one of Martial or Dan James. Cavani to be used similar to how Chelsea used Giroud.

No need for Ronaldo, Bruno or Pogba.

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James went to Leeds.

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I know that. Is it permanent?

I think it’s beyond his physical presence though. It’s his influence on the board, and I think that is the big unstated bit of the current palace intrigue stories. He is a board member, and with ole in place he has influence beyond that official role. With the likely replacements it’s really difficult to see how he sustains that - no way in hell someone Zidane allows someone else to do his thinking for him. That has to be influencing his contribution to these discussions. Maybe the rest of the board are fine with that, with the assumption that what is in Fergie’s best interests are in Utd’s, but its a recipe for bad decisions.

I think the big difference is in previous seasons those bad results were pointing to a known flaw that everyone just accepted was something that needed to be addressed in the next stage of development. For most of their time under Ole they have been quite good when playing as the underdog. For all the criticism of them, when they play conservatively with men behind the ball, the McFred partnership is effective. And that is in part because their role with the ball was also pretty limited, with them having to do little more than get to forward into space pretty quickly to launch their counters. Give them more of the ball against a team who plays that game against them and their attacking limitations were shown and the extra space between the players of their back 6 created from playing further up the pitch made them susceptible to being hit with their preferred weapons as well.

This is what Sancho, with his 1-1 ability, was supposed to help fix. Even more with the addition of Ronaldo. He was supposed to be the goal scorer who would take those chances against the teams who sit back and make chance creation a premium. The Ronaldo problem is one where his presence takes away as much as it offers as they are now far less effective at the counter attacking game. But the other issue is that even if they evolve to a more front foot side, they are failing in that evolution, and that is what tends to bring down a tenure (think Houllier and the Leverkusen tie). When you havent had the time to evolve your team you get leeway on the existence of limitations. When you’ve had time and money and you’re still a tactical mess, what is the point of patience?

I think where a bit of nuance is required. Under Klopp we had numerous poor performances early on, but it was still clear what we were trying to do, we just weren’t doing it well enough consistently enough yet. On Sunday it was difficult to see the idea behind what they were even trying to do. They were half committed to trying to compete and win the ball, but did it with only half a side, meaning the likes of McFred were always far too late and too isolated. I think all our first half goals came from that…waiting for a player to over commit, easily getting around that isolated pressure and then exploiting the space they left vacant. It was not just failure to follow a game plan, it was incoherent and there was no visible effort from the sidelines to fix it…because he didnt know what he was supposed to fix.

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Yes. Fee undisclosed but rumoured to be as much as £25m.

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There was a reason why we didnt go for bruno before… The fact that the entire team needs to be built around him. We grew out of that phase after coutinho.

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And there was me thinking that we already have a bottle opener

Every day is a school day.

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Ian Wright’s last words on the manc derby the other night were “Good luck with that”.
EDIT: Just for the record, I don’t like Ian Wright as a person, but that made me giggle :slight_smile:

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I dont know Ive ever seen a side with so many players who have to be accommodated. And I dont just mean they are played in a way that brings the best out of them, but their presence in the team requires the presence of another player who can do the work they are unable/unwilling to do. They had the problem with Pogba, compounded it in a way that was head scratching with Fernandes, did it again with DvdB (no one will ever convince me that they simply misunderstood what sort of player he was) and then again with Ronaldo. Trying to put them all together in a way that doesn’t create massive holes is like trying to finish a rubik’s cube with one too many red squares. You can scrape CL places even in a competitive league with collection of good players playing incoherently, but you cannot genuinely compete.

I disagree that this has any relevance to Phil though. He was an effective and key contributor in a coherent side that was playing the way the manager wanted. He fit into the team like a glove and did not remotely need to be accommodated. For a variety of reasons there has taken on this idea that we had to carry him while he was here, but it just isnt true. It’s possibly based on stereotypes of brazilian play makers, possibly because of the way he left, possibly because of the fact the team kicked on after he left, but the reality is he was a hard worker who always got stuck in without the ball and carried out his role in the press from the left of the attack very effectively.

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Why not? The guy’s a top bloke.

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Forced sale after they got all the

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He actually laughs

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Virgil is a big guy right… But konate is a different build altogether… Almost an NBA player height… Guessing but that’s 6 4 at the very least