Conte will line united up like this
Awb maguire varane
Sancho matic pogba fred shaw (a dan james would have been a good fit but that ship has sailed)
Two out of the other front guys
Cavani in would require a change of system and probably approach, too. That’s the problem for Ole. He got them to a point and then for the rest, he looks a little bit lost.
You either have Ronaldo “hidden” in a very high left wide forward role or play him in a 2 up top. It’s the only two solutions. This one with him up top in a 4-2-3-1 is the first time in his career that he’s doing it. Not even for Portugal. And over there, they’re struggling to get the best out of Fernandes, interestingly enough.
Real did that all the way back to Ancelotti. Ronaldo having the overlapping of Marcelo, having Di Maria as the box-to-box LCM (and then Alonso and Modric as a covering CM duo what was on paper a 4-3-3), Benzema as someone who would drop/link/defend. United are not a complete enough side even before Ronaldo.
They have 11 players for 4 offensive positions and a lot of those are simply clashing in terms of positions and roles.
I really don’t know how and why do they still feel they need to have both Rashford and Martial at the club. Them two playing regularly is not a long term solution. You’re still in the process of getting Rashford to really that consistent top level. Both of them don’t look like they will lead the line in the near future, both of them are best at playing that left wide forward role.
Sancho is more of a creative player off either sides. There’s little room for him on the left at United and on the right, he needs much better overlapping than Wan-Bissaka.
Lingard? He’s a better player than opposition fans give him credit, but nah, his ceiling is not for United’s level, or where they want to be and how they get there. He’s a busy little player, involved in both phases of the game. Too little influence when he plays from out wide, the stuff he played at West Ham is the zone that Fernandes occupies. Better to leave United as soon as possible, time is running out.
F*ck me, Fernandes is basically the only player there who plays where he’s best and actually doing it consistently.
That brings me to the question why the hell they felt they needed vdBeek. That guy is either the single #10 Sigurdsson type, or a very, very offensive #8 (in a 4-3-3). I just don’t think he’s as good as fans portray him. I think it’s the Ajax thing. But Frenkie de Jong was/is a more serious talent and player. I see vdBeek having a career like Klaassen had, maybe a better one than that. I just don’t see how he competes for that double-pivot CM role they currently play.
That leads us to that CM double-pivot they have. Too much of the same and not quite good enough. McTominay is a weird one, actually started as more of a box-to-box type of midfielder (ceiling really for United I don’t think, not to start regularly anyway), occasionally used at CB in a back 3 for United and Scotland. Fred is a busy little bee at LCM, but when you put them two together, it’s not good enough. Matic had his little period when he showed life again, but in NONE of those 3 do they have a proper single pivot #6 player to potentially turn it to a 4-3-3 or 4-diamond-2. You don’t even have enough quality to play a compact 4-4-2 and it’s a shame then to use Fernandes differently, or better to say, who then plays as wingers (proper wingers who make that midfield ‘4’ a strong middle block?)?
Pogba is too inconsistent, both in games and between games. What he does for France is a tiny bit overblown because it’s a good argument for Pogba defenders (let’s not kid ourselves he’s not rubbish either), but that’s two very different teams and structures/protections. He’s not a #6, never was. He’s not a #10, at least not as good as Fernandes. He’s an #8 that needs to have certain freedom, so either in a double pivot with someone of Kante’s calibre (which United don’t have), midfield structures of 3-4 players or those tucked in wide midfield roles he played on the left for Juve and United at times.
I don’t think that side needs a few workers and that’s it. Everything technical they have ordinates or their best positions are too high up the pitch. They need a bit of both, but better versions. Take Carrick par example, who was underrated. F*ck me, he’d help them offensively AND defensively. It’s a little bit more complex than thinking “just bring better versions of McTominay and Fred and it’s defensively sound” or “just put Pogba and vdBeek deeper and we’re more offensive”. No, it’s not. They’re missing better defenders, but they’re also missing that ball playing ability from deep. I’m not even gonna mention Scholes, I’m being gentle by simply going back to someone like Carrick. All those: Pogba, Fernandes and van de Beek… are players who are NOT double-six pivots. Especially with what they’d have alongside them.
It’s a badly constructed side that did well in the initial counter attacking/forward transition way under Ole. But to add more layers it takes more than just throwing a few more shiny players on the pitch, “the only missing piece is Declan Rice”, etc.
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No way Sancho plays a wing back role under Conte. Much more chances of someone like Dalot getting more games. Possibly Lingard. But it’s true, United have so little natural options down the right. For years now. Both at RB and RW. In whatever systems and approaches.
Conte uses wingbacks much more offensively than the other managers though and it won’t be the first time he’s repurposed a winger to be a wingback.
Among the current man utd attackers , sancho probably is the only guy who can do a defensive shift.
I think they’d love to shift Martial. But no-one is biting.
I don’t know what he’s paid, but this is a problem for them.
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I felt martial looked a huge talent under LVG. Probably the most complete forward man utd had off late.
Jose and then Ole did fuck all for his development as a footballer
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Sancho is not a natural winger though. When he plays on the sides, he’s more of a combination type of player, comes inside, etc. With his natural skills and where he’s at now, I don’t think he could do it. He’d probably compete for one of those spots “around” the striker. It would also depend which exact forward structure of a back 3 would Conte go for. You have obviously the 3-4-3, but also 3-5-2, etc.
And if they are willing to flog off rashford , salary and all permitting… Wouldnt mind having him in the side as a backup option when we get Origi off
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Guess he can make it under a 3 4 3 as a right forward… But united don’t have the stability in defence and in midfield for conte to play that formation.
He’s a pragmatic coach who often looks to pack his midfield… That along with United and their lack of quality in midfield will probably ensure that while he will tinker with his formation a bit , he’ll likely end up with a more defensive 3 5 2. Will still be imbalanced as far as the squad goes though…too many attacking midfield/ attackers…
do think that lingard is someone who would suit conte well… Though , he’ll do better from the left though
Either that or be Fernandes’ backup as the most advanced of the central players between the deeper CM and Ronaldo. It’s tricky because you don’t want Ronaldo as a lone #9 even in that system, he needs support. I just don’t think Sancho is the winger or has the defensive skills (or wills?) of Moses at the time, Candreva, Perisic, etc. You’d possibly see even Wan-Bissaka playing RWB more than we expect. But that’s Conte. Also that structure in CM in a back 3. I still don’t see any of United’s CM’s being able to play the single pivot #6. So it would be either a square cage of 4 players (3-4-3) or a 3-4-1-2 with Fernandes as the ‘1’ and possibly one of Cavani/Rashford/Greenwood alongside Ronaldo.
They have a lot of options on the left though, a lack of options on the right.
It’s all speculation right now, we’ll see if Conte even happens. And if it does, does it happen before/during January, where there might be a change or two, considering a huge number of offensive players in that squad.
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To paraphrase the old Beatles / John Lennon line, Pogba isn’t the most self obsessed player in the team.
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Way too much fixing and not enough laughing going on in here. We’re even discussing formations and personnel and management. For a minute I thought I’d stumbled onto Red Cafe. We’ve just had a once in a lifetime result and the discussion has turned to fixing them! You guys really need to get out more.
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I think they had no decent offers for Martial otherwise he presumably would have gone (obviously dependent on what Utd call decent). Rashford is the local lad who has done well so difficult to see them want to move him on.
Lingard probably would have gone to West Ham if they’d again made an offer Utd were happy with. I only remember the loan request, dont know if West Ham offered a permanent deal…
I think we have to be brave and face up to the sad news that Ole is now at the end. Whether that’s by the weekend or the end of the season, there is an end to this which is within sight.
Let’s not be too downhearted. It was always going to happen at some point.
Let’s just remember that they are fucking shambles from top to bottom, and short of finding Klopp II that isn’t going to change.
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Martial is stuck there for at least another year, I suspect, unless he and ManU take a significant hit on wages/value. I suspect his agent holds out hope that the next ManU manager will take a better view of what Martial offers.
Lingard turned down a contract in September, and is able to move in June. That seems very likely now.
Meanwhile, Pogba’s people are clearly briefing the press about ‘putting contract talks on hold’. That may well be true, but it is still hilarious that they’d be saying it after he managed to get himself sent off in 15 minutes playing in one of the most humiliating defeats in living memory.
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And even a Conte would be like keeping a band aid on a gaping wound. Unless something is done to fix that , conte would lead them on an even bigger circus buying 30 plus stars om huge wages that utd will find it tough to ship out against.
A ten haag , a potter etc would be a different matter though
John never actually said that, (it was Jasper Carrott), but I take your point!
Jasper Carrot the best scouser of all time?
I’ll get me coat…