The Owners - FSG

The Albert
3942

A lot of anger and criticism is directed towards FSG and Klopp because they aren’t fortune tellers and couldn’t predict that the midfield would be decimated by injuries and those left standing would be in the worse form of their careers simultaneously.

The thing is that I don’t recall calls for a higher turnover of players during the summer. Just about everyone thought that adding one midfielder would be enough, and were overjoyed with Nunez. Now apparently Henderson and Milner shouldn’t have been renewed, FSG aren’t investing enough and Klopp is too loyal. Where was this talk during the summer? Sure, it’s obvious now that everything has gone to shit, but a month ago was there anyone clamouring for a squad revamp? Anyone claiming that they saw this coming, are lying. So a bit more understanding towards both Klopp and FSG wouldn’t go amiss. They’ve earned it.

To avoid any misunderstandings, this isn’t directed to anyone specific; it’s a general observation.

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3943

It’s called exaggeration for comic effect. It’s not literal, although I am aware you have to be careful on the internet with the number of people who suddenly develop temporary aspergers when they are looking at a computer screen.

The point was that Klopp can stand in front of the media and say ‘I got this totally wrong’ as he did this window, and you still get people responding to this by going ‘fucking FSG tightarses again’

I don’t get the cognitive dissonance necessary to view a manager getting visibly annoyed at people suggesting we need a midfielder, saying over and over again he is happy with the players there, then seeing everyone get injured, then saying ‘I got it wrong’, then having a pop at the owners for being risk adverse with about 36 hours left in the window, and think FSG have fucked up again. It feels like twisting the facts to suit an agenda.

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3944

because you need to be one to think that Thiago, Ox and Keita will be injured at the same time and Milner hasnt figured out how to reverse the ageing process

3945

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it, and look what happened.

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3946

To be fair quite a lot of fans have been arguing for the midfield to be strengthened now for a long time and it’s a bit of a stretch to say that bringing in Arthur on loan has addressed that issue. To be equally fair I was happy to go with what we’d got given no one was leaving but it was obvious from the first couple of games that things weren’t right. Add in to that all the injuries and some people could justifiably say they saw this coming so why didn’t JK and FSG etc. These days every one has to find someone to blame when something goes wrong which is why we have these cretinous arguments about it all being Klopp’s fault/FSG’s fault when the situation is obviously more nuanced than that.

Bottom line is we are where we are we now and I don’t see the point on focussing on things we can’t do anything about unless people are obsessed with wanting to be seen to be proved right on the internet. Now we just have to make the best of it. Adapt the tactics to suit the players we’ve got available, try to find some form and hang in on there then review the situation in January.

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3947

I’ll be honest I’m indifferent to FSG , I don’t really care for them as in being pro/against, personally I don’t like John Henry, but I won’t let that get in the way as long as he provides funds for klopp when needed , which I presume he has done because the transformation over the years under klopp has seen us improve.

But people should also look at the wider picture in regards to the owners, and that they have at times it feels stood alone in talking about FFP .

What they have done in regards to the club has been exceptional in many ways, the fact that the FA. And other governing bodies say one thing and then ignore their own demands when billionaire oil nations pour money in is disgusting,

If FFP was enforced , man city and the rising powerhouse that Newcastle will become (which will happen imo) then it would give us not so much as an advantage but equal playing field , which credit where credit is due Henry has mentioned more than any other premier League owner as far as I’m aware.

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3948

October 2021.

November 2021

April 2022

I’m not trying to toot my own horn here and say I know more than anyone and especially more than Klopp and co but the midfield regeneration has been an issue that has been discussed on these boards for at least a year now. The concerns voiced then are the issues we’re seeing now. The calls to move on from some of those not able to stay fit or contribute enough and to bring in some more reliable, energetic and physical midfielders have been loud and clear and then often shot down.

There was one very prominent poster who like to lay blame for this not happening at the door of FSG but for the majority, the concern has been around loyalty shown to players beyond perhaps what is best for the team, too many injury prone options and the seeming contentment with the options we had.

So no, people aren’t lying. They’re right to have been concerned and they’re frustrated that their fears have played out in reality.

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3949

Yes, but I wasn’t doing any of that. You’ve made that whole scenario up, perhaps for comic effect :man_shrugging:t2:

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3950

Agreement or disagreement with your points aside, what a dreadful expression to use in any debate.
And this is not woke offence.

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3951

I agree with most of his posts, but people seem afraid to disagree as expect a disparaging response.

E.g.

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3952

That wasn’t my point, unless you foresaw this season’s collapse. Thiago, Ox and Keita have been injured plenty of times before but we’ve dealt with it.

I don’t know anyone who hasn’t wanted a midfielder or two for years. At the same time, most like you and me were more than happy to head into the season with what we had. That’s why complaining and throwing accusations left and right now is more than disingenuous. Everybody screwed up. FSG, Klopp and the fans for not pressing for more reinforcements.

Again my point wasn’t about predicting that we’d have injuries and problems but about foreseeing that we’d be in such a mess a few months after almost winning the quadrable. As for the midfield issues, I largely tend to agree with you. We should have been more proactive, we should have refreshed the squad before getting to this point. Fact is though that at the time it didn’t seem like a priority and a lot of what is being thrown at Klopp and FSG now comes with the benefit of hindsight.

3953

I doubt anyone imagined this season going so badly but the concerns about the midfield and in particular the durability and age have been around for a couple of years. It’s likely the midfield issues are a significant, but not the only, factor in our poor start and the deadline day panic loan is testament to the fact they think they’ve made a mistake too.

It’s been a worry since the Gini days and how we’d replace the 3,000 minutes or more he played every season for about 5 seasons in row. At some point, if we did nothing to address that then we’re bound to hit a bit of a hump. I just think it’s disingenuous to say people are liars for saying they saw this coming because they didn’t specifically say how these issues would manifest themselves on the pitch. It’s like someone who’d showed concern that the you’d made your house out of straw being told they didn’t actually foresee the problem because they didn’t specifically mentioned it might burn to the ground whilst everyone stands around a pile of ash that once was your house.

3954

To be fair to @rab, he has been saying this for ages, along with a few others.

I have been surprised at quite how quickly things have gone wrong this year so far, especially for a team that can within an absolute whisker of winning the fucking lot.

I do suspect that it is more than a midfield issue.

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3955

I think all this whining really just boils down to one thing – people want something, or someone to blame.

You see it all the time. It’s either players getting scapegoated for individual matches, or being blamed for not being there at all, or being there but “being rubbish” while actually doing nothing wrong, or the managers for not “seeing” something “blindingly obvious” or owners who “don’t want to spend”.

Seemingly few can accept that you can have the best process in the world, the best people to carry out and improve that process, and still need to navigate some really tough waters.

Lots of people also can’t deal with their personal PTSD from 2020-21, and need to project it over every single minor thing. Ignoring the fact that even when we did bring in players during the transfer window to patch up what was seen as our weak point, we ended up with our then seventh and eighth choices playing anyway, players whom we already had at the club. Meaning we brought in new faces needlessly anyway.

Some can’t accept that you do not use five-year solutions to solve 2 month problems. Nor that the existing process identified the optimal way forward, and was being followed.

“But everyone could see they were crocks!” Except the players being cited as crocks were mostly fit throughout all of last season. People whining on and on about needing a 4th centre-back, when Gomez was barely used at all last season after bringing one in, with his game time coming mainly at right-back. Coincidentally, on a tangent, I’m wondering that’s why his form so far this season is a little patchy.

I often use the analogy of babies throwing a tantrum and throwing their toys out of the pram. This is not actually used lightly. Much like said babies, many people are just reacting emotively and not actually thinking and analysing deeply. Lots of knee-jerkers crawling out of the cracks, as they do every time we’re not doing well.

To bring it back to the owners, I fail to see how they have a huge role in this. It’s quite clear that they’re largely hands-off, but in a good way, where they’ve put in people to run the club with a particular process, focused on particular goals. I don’t think they dictate to Jürgen directly that he gets a particular amount of money to spend, or that he gets to spend it on a particular player, and rightly so. I think it’s more focused on the overall sustainability of the club, especially given all their talk about FFP, as @odin_telamon stated. But they’re a convenient scapegoat, especially by people who don’t understand how the club operates, and see United throwing money away left, right, and centre.

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3956

I don’t think it’s too far to say that like 2020-21, almost everything that can go wrong so far, has.

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3957

Good post redalways, the way I see it our club may have some minor issues which can annoy some people, which in all honesty I can understand in some respects, but expectations have to be managed by ourselves and not the manager/owners .

The real problem is the system is broken, and as long as gulf state owners keep spending beyond what they actually earn within revenues then the imbalance will exist simply because the system is broken.

And it’s not just for football, when everyone and their dog knew about the Saudi regime and demanded they be barred from purchasing Newcastle , what hope is there when the toothless tigers that are uefa/FIFA/FA (besides staying silent) can get overruled by people like Boris Johnson, who only look at the ££££.

In that regards we are lucky to have the owners because at least this is the main area that John Henry has been vocal.

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3958

I wish that was true. People with a social conscience did, but I’d say the majority didn’t really bother. There was certainly no organised protest.

Giving the World Cup to Qatar, and collapse of any FFP has probably numbed people into giving up. We know it’s fucked but nothing can be done and we still need our football fix

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3959

I’ve been giving this some thought and imo his age isn’t the problem. It’s how he’s playing that midfield role. Against Napoli he was like a man possessed and was everywhere but nowhere at the same time. He’s just not suited to that midfield role anymore. The difference between Thiago and him is night and day in both the way played in that position, how and how much they moved and the result of what they were doing.

Basically still the wrong option midfield.

Apologies wrong thread.

3960

8 million net spend this summer. At least the books are balanced.

3961

May 2022 - :heart:FSG. here comes the quad!

Sept 2022 - :person_shrugging: WTF FSG out!

football fans in a nutshell, right there.

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